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Old 16 November 2014, 22:48   #21
emuola
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I will report back as soon as I have tested. Weekend at the latest
News?
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Old 20 November 2014, 09:31   #22
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*bump* Did you have the time to test the config?
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Old 20 November 2014, 13:56   #23
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Sorry... work was hell all week!

I tested the config extensively on Sunday - my preliminary result is that it worked perfectly, given that the monitor is capable of producing the specific vertical frequency of just under 50Hz *and* has a quick panel.

I have the liberty (and slight priviledge) of testing monitors in the office with the Amiga.

At home I have a Dell U2413 - it can handle 49.xHz up tp 75Hz - but no matter what settings - I always get a stutter and motion is never smooth. So far, I think that this is due to the slow IPS panel and a response time of about 6ms.

In the office, I tested another Dell at 4ms with a TN panel - but it did not have a DVI input - and through its "VGA in" the picture was really bad.

I also tested through a Samsung Syncmaster something (older model with a TN panel and 2ms) - and the result was a stutter-free - super-smooth gameplay, that not even my Commodore 1942 had! The picture was seriously smoother and better!

So, I think it really is super dependent on the monitor
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Old 20 November 2014, 14:03   #24
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Nah, this has nothing to do with the response time. As i already told you in Forum 64: your monitor manual lists 56Hz-75Hz, despite the fact that your monitor display is showing 49.XX Hz.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 20 November 2014 at 14:26.
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Old 21 November 2014, 10:13   #25
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Originally Posted by schneidas View Post
At home I have a Dell U2413 - it can handle 49.xHz up tp 75Hz - but no matter what settings - I always get a stutter and motion is never smooth. So far, I think that this is due to the slow IPS panel and a response time of about 6ms.
It is probably stuttering for the same reason my Dell 2408WFP is. The panel is always running at 60 Hz and while the monitor can accept a 50 Hz signal on the VGA (not DVI though), the monitor resamples it to 60 Hz which obviously kills any smoothness.

If the picture stutters, it is not due to response times since a slow panel will just make movements blurry. Stuttering means there's some frame rate conversion going on somewhere.
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Old 21 November 2014, 14:09   #26
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It is probably stuttering for the same reason my Dell 2408WFP is. The panel is always running at 60 Hz and while the monitor can accept a 50 Hz signal on the VGA (not DVI though), the monitor resamples it to 60 Hz which obviously kills any smoothness.

If the picture stutters, it is not due to response times since a slow panel will just make movements blurry. Stuttering means there's some frame rate conversion going on somewhere.
Very interesting. Thanks for that
So, if I run it via 'VGA in' on the Dell, you think it will stop the internal conversion to 60Hz?
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Old 21 November 2014, 14:16   #27
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It should, but a lot depends on the monitor. Try it and see, you may be surprised. Not all monitors or inputs are equal as they say.
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Old 21 November 2014, 14:50   #28
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After reading the last posts, I wonder if such a device is a good buy counting on its dependency of the monitor and the not precisely cheap price (150 ).

Sure it can offer good quality and resolutions in actual LCD 31Khz displays, but it raises me many doubts before buying.
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Old 21 November 2014, 15:37   #29
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Yes, I cannot recommend this device personally. As a lot of monitors do in fact appear to stutter. And from what I see, the manufacturer says the Indi works as advertised (yes it does, if the monitor plays along) and will not update the current config tool (which is still very much in a beta stage).
Personally, if anyone told me that I'd have to try a large amount of monitors to get this to play smoothly, I would not have bought it. Especially given the price
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Old 21 November 2014, 16:00   #30
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Yes, I cannot recommend this device personally. As a lot of monitors do in fact appear to stutter. And from what I see, the manufacturer says the Indi works as advertised (yes it does, if the monitor plays along) and will not update the current config tool (which is still very much in a beta stage).
Personally, if anyone told me that I'd have to try a large amount of monitors to get this to play smoothly, I would not have bought it. Especially given the price
The reason for this thread was exactly this I was hoping to get "better results" :/ I might be wrong, but it seems that nothing beats a good old quality monitor/tv (trinitron...). Please, correct me if I'm wrong here.
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Old 21 November 2014, 16:06   #31
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Actually no, to be completely fair, when set up *correctly* - and when you have the *right monitor* (and *when the stars are all in the right angle*) - then the Indi is actually smoother than my Commodore 1942 was.

But:

1.)It just seems to be too much of a *luck* thing
2.)the config tool is super beta, feels clumsy, a lot of options do not work (or work correctly) and there are some serious bugs
3.)as of now, the manufacturer does not appear to be willing to make the config tool more user friendly, fix all the bugs and will not even add a vsync option
4.)there is no support from the manufacturer. He points to the reseller - and when I asked the reseller what monitor I had to buy to get this to play smoothly, I got the answer that they did not know. They could not even recommend what settings I should use. So, you are left completely in the dark and have to rely on what other people on these helpful boards have discovered. And you still have to do a lot of frustrating testing yourself.

but it is a great device, when everything works.

But I still would not recommend it, as it is too picky and problematic

Last edited by schneidas; 21 November 2014 at 16:14.
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Old 21 November 2014, 16:21   #32
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Very interesting. Thanks for that
So, if I run it via 'VGA in' on the Dell, you think it will stop the internal conversion to 60Hz?
Not on my monitor. As I mentioned, the panel seems to always run 60 Hz and through DVI it will only accept 60 Hz or there is no picture. On VGA however, it shows a picture with both 60 and 50 Hz. it also has a HDMI connector which has to support 24, 25, 50 and 60 Hz. It also has other analog video inputs which has to work with PAL signals. Running a composite signal into the monitor also creates a stuttering picture, so there is also some frame rate conversion going on here. I think the 2408WFP monitor is a lost cause for smooth 50 Hz gaming. You could put the Amiga into NTSC mode and maybe get some smooth 60 Hz gaming going on. :-)
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Old 22 November 2014, 16:58   #33
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I have the original Indi AGA MKII in my A1200, I have never tried it on a LCD TV so can't comment too much, I have it connected to a old 19" CRT via VGA.
I have never updated the core or used the config tool, it is still as it came from production. I just use the Super Plus 800x600 driver.
Apart from some really weird timing issue with Musicline modules and EaglePlayer blanking the screen, it is fine on a CRT monitor. I just used the monitor controls to centre the screen and left it at that. Probably not what folk want to hear but if you have an Indy, use a CRT monitor, you will have less headaches. I'm not even going to try with a LCD.
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Old 23 November 2014, 04:53   #34
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The reason for this thread was exactly this I was hoping to get "better results" :/ I might be wrong, but it seems that nothing beats a good old quality monitor/tv (trinitron...). Please, correct me if I'm wrong here.
No, you're dead on the money. The Amiga output wasn't designed for fixed-pixel displays, many of which don't handle 50Hz properly. There are going to be compromises, you can only expect so much. For "doing everything", I think the Indivision does pretty well.

I struggled with these issues for years, achieved pretty good results with the Picasso IV scandoubler, but ended up buying a few Sony PVM monitors and haven't looked back. Talk about FLAWLESS gaming experience. (Obviously not ideal for desktop use, but you can't really have it all in one monitor - that's what multiple setups are for. ;-))
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Old 05 December 2014, 18:51   #35
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I use my config with a HP vs17e monitor and the scrolling is as smooth as a baby's bum. Pretty old LCD monitor, so I'm not sure how hard they are to find.

Mine cost 10 on EBay
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Old 07 December 2014, 18:58   #36
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I also tested through a Samsung Syncmaster something (older model with a TN panel and 2ms) - and the result was a stutter-free - super-smooth gameplay, that not even my Commodore 1942 had! The picture was seriously smoother and better!

So, I think it really is super dependent on the monitor
Hi schneidas,

Do you happen to remember the model of the Samsung that you had good results with? I'm keen to try the Indivision but it sounds like getting the "right" monitor is key to good results.

Cheers,
Chris
 
Old 17 December 2014, 00:58   #37
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This is my current config with runs my LED monitor @ 60 Hz, works best if you run your WB in PAL 640x512 mode so you don't get a black screen each time the Indy switches modes!
Attached Files
File Type: zip nova_indivision_60.zip (2.5 KB, 65 views)
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Old 21 December 2014, 10:29   #38
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I've been running my original Mkii with Novas config on my 27" samsung SyncMaster (will have to go find the model) and my old 24" Dell ultra sharp with no tearing, not quite full screen but runs really smooth in games :-)

I dislike the tool that it comes with, it's over complicated/cumbersome and you need to be some sort of indi expert to use it. Jens needs to release an update.

If it wasn't for the configs out on the net I'd be throwing it at the wall :-/

Oh and finding updates/firmware and tips is crazy, having to google and visit various websites just to get it working is frustrating.
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Old 25 January 2015, 22:34   #39
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The 15Hz PAL mode is not full screen, intentionally. As a lot of games and demos use the overscan area. It is as centered as possible.

Other modes are full screen for the WB

Now in the Zone for you to try for yourself.
If you want it full screen, that's easily changed without affecting the scroll
Thanks! This has served as inspiration for me to make a full screen smooth scroll config. Seems the frequencies don't have to be 100% the same as yours, I had them off by 0,02 and at least I got tired of watching scrollers before I was able to notice any jerks.

Got to iterate my own config a bit more, but I got it working quite nicely already. I wonder why Jens didn't ship such an example config with the tool? This is like the only big gripe I've heard about the product and a reason why many people I know have refrained from purchasing.
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