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Old 07 November 2017, 16:02   #1
BadHatGamer
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Question AmiTCP Setup Woes (Null modem —> Win 7 PC)

Hey guys.

I've been pulling my hair out trying to get AmiTCP on the internet using a usb/serial nullmodem cable, through my windows7 pc (running wingate as a proxy etc).

I could really use a step by step to get this confounded thing up and running.

I've been using the guide on the Amiga Forever website, but it doesn't give much info beyond the essentials:

Code:
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-106
I've been looking a fair bit online but most of the guides assume one is using ethernet which is a whole different ballgame.

My Amiga is an A500 with ACA500+ (soon with a 68030 accelerator as well) and WB3.1. I'll be using Aweb as browser for now as it runs well on the A500 as it is now.

I also have Amiga Explorer installed on the PC and set up to use TCP/IP rather than serial connection.

My pc uses an IP of 172.16.0.3 on the network. AmiTCP is using serial.device to communicate with the PC via null modem.

So far I've got amiTCP to throw the following in shell on running Startnet:

Code:
ifconfig ioctl (SIOCGFFLAGS): no such interface
add host 172.16.0.5: gateway localhost
add net default: gateway 172.16.0.3: network is unreachable
[CLI 4]
inetd: already exists
My guess is that I'm just not 'getting' which IP addresses to put where during the amiTCP config etc. This is my first foray into AmiTCP by the way, so its still kinda alien to me.

Any help appreciated as I'm running out of hair to pull and I'm starting to look like my grandfather .


Last edited by BadHatGamer; 07 November 2017 at 17:35.
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Old 08 November 2017, 08:14   #2
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serial.device is not a SANA driver.. You should be connecting via PPP and the PC should be the PPP server. That amigaforever kb link you pasted is not a guide, just a brief overview of what you need to accomplish with no actual instructions on how to get it done.

With Win7 you wouldn't be installing Wingate or anything like that, you should install the direct cable connection modem driver that comes with win7 and create a new incoming connection in the network adapters cpanel.. On the AmiTCP side it is a normal PPP setup, the phone number can be anything random. On the windows side you should share your network connection to the Amiga if you want the Amiga to talk to the internet. Don't do it if a connection between the PC and Amiga is only needed.

Now I've got to ask: are you going to use it for other things than Amiga Explorer? You are adding a lot of needless overhead to slow down your throughput if you set up a PPP link for Amiga Explorer use.

Last edited by Jope; 08 November 2017 at 08:28.
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Old 08 November 2017, 11:32   #3
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Cheers for the reply Jope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
you should install the direct cable connection modem driver that comes with win7 and create a new incoming connection in the network adapters cpanel.. On the AmiTCP side it is a normal PPP setup, the phone number can be anything random. On the windows side you should share your network connection to the Amiga if you want the Amiga to talk to the internet.
This is where it goes a bit over my head. As I said in my
original post, this is my first proper foray into Amiga networking.
Can you direct me to a decent guide for installing & setting up ppp
on the amiga side?

I have the incoming connection set up in windows.
How would I share the PC's internet with that incoming connection?
Under ICS settings, the incoming connections aren't listed to be
shared with. It only shows my VMWare software adapters.
Or does it have to be all set up and connected to the amiga
before doing ICS as a last step?

Also, does it matter that my Windows PC is getting internet from a
server computer over ICS already? My network setup is a little more complex:

ROUTER/INTERNET > SERVER PC (with ICS) > LOCAL ETHERNET/NETWORK > MAIN WINDOWS PC > USB-NULLMODEM TO AMIGA

(Dont ask. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
Now I've got to ask: are you going to use it for other things than Amiga Explorer? You are adding a lot of needless overhead to slow down your throughput if you set up a PPP link for Amiga Explorer use.
Simple answer = Yes. Internet (albeit slow as a dog).

As I stated in my original post, I'm looking to use Aweb
to browse the net. I'm not too fussed about speed, and
I have a 68030 accelerator board arriving soon as well.

I have already succeeded in connecting Amiga Explorer
with Serial connection and transferring files (and even
getting onto a BBS via telnet). So this isn't an issue.

Last edited by BadHatGamer; 08 November 2017 at 12:04.
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Old 08 November 2017, 17:08   #4
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There is a video for exactly what you are doing. Personally, I hate browsing web sites on my souped up A1200, I can imagine how bad it is going to suck on an A500 over PPP.

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 09 November 2017, 11:35   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illy5603 View Post
There is a video for exactly what you are doing. Personally, I hate browsing web sites on my souped up A1200, I can imagine how bad it is going to suck on an A500 over PPP.

Thanks for the input, however that video seems to be for using
telnet to get onto a BBS. Please read from my last post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHatGamer View Post
I have already succeeded in connecting Amiga Explorer
with Serial connection and transferring files (and even
getting onto a BBS via telnet)
. So this isn't an issue.
I am looking to use an actual browser (such as AWeb) to browse actual web pages, not to telnet into a BBS.
And yes, before everyone starts saying so - I realize this is going to be slower than an autistic snail on LSD.
I know that I could go the Plibox route, but I'd like to keep the parallel port free for a MAS MP3 decoder.


Last edited by BadHatGamer; 09 November 2017 at 11:56.
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Old 09 November 2017, 15:46   #6
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Get yourself a plipbox. You can build 'em for a handful of euros and they're much faster than serial, and go direct to the internet rather than via another computer.
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Old 09 November 2017, 15:54   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
Get yourself a plipbox. You can build 'em for a handful of euros and they're much faster than serial, and go direct to the internet rather than via another computer.
Ummm.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHatGamer View Post
I know that I could go the Plibox route, but I'd like to keep the parallel port free for a MAS MP3 decoder.
Speed isn't really an issue. I mean, its an A500 for cryin' out loud.
I have enough computers lying about, so repurposing one ain't an issue either.
I'm wanting to do it for the above reason - and well......... because I can.

So unless there's a some kind of dual parallel port switcher/adapter out in the
wild (and I don't think there is), the Plibox is a no-go. My only other option
would be to wait for heck knows how long until Individual Computers makes
a network module for the ACA500+ (assuming they actually make one at all).

Maybe someone out there who isn't me could make a dual parallel port adapter.
I'm sure there would be demand and it shouldn't be all that difficult for the
Amiga wizards to design something like this.........


Last edited by BadHatGamer; 09 November 2017 at 16:51.
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Old 09 November 2017, 16:47   #8
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Ah. Missed that bit.

Why don't you put a clockport based MP3 player on instead?
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Old 09 November 2017, 16:51   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
Ah. Missed that bit.

Why don't you put a clockport based MP3 player on instead?
I can do that? I can do that!

Please point me toward it and pull the trigger firmly.

At least then I can save myself ex Inferis and go buy a Plibox without sacrificing mp3.

I'm assuming this would work on an ACA1233n 40mhz 128mb clockport?

Last edited by BadHatGamer; 09 November 2017 at 16:57.
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Old 09 November 2017, 16:57   #10
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Yeah, you'll have a clockport on the ACA500+ which you can use, maybe one of the ACA1233n too.

Prisma Megamix

http://amigakit.amiga.store/catalog/...oducts_id=1218
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Old 09 November 2017, 17:03   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
Yeah, you'll have a clockport on the ACA500+ which you can use, maybe one of the ACA1233n too.

Prisma Megamix

http://amigakit.amiga.store/catalog/...oducts_id=1218
Nice! But how would the audio connections to speakers etc work? Theres a backplate for towers,
but that might be a little messy.

Also it states that the lowest compatible Amiga model is the 1200 - would the ACA1233n
suffice here, or are there elements of an A1200 system besides CPU/fastram that the card needs?

And I guess I have to ask this one: Would it fit properly with the side of the A500 case so close?

Last edited by BadHatGamer; 09 November 2017 at 17:15.
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Old 09 November 2017, 17:14   #12
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A500/A600 doesn't have a clockport natively. However, the daisy-chain of adapters you have dangling off the side provide them.

Try trawling through here for more info
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=71174
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Old 09 November 2017, 17:33   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
A500/A600 doesn't have a clockport natively. However, the daisy-chain of adapters you have dangling off the side provide them.
Yes I know - but still, would it fit with the side of the A500 case so close?


Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
Try trawling through here for more info
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=71174
Cheers. I did find this via thread search (using "500" as keyword):

Quote:
Originally Posted by amigakit.com View Post
This card can either hook up to A1200 via clockport cable - maybe ACA 500 / A604 in future too!
Looks somewhat promising if a little vague. Not sure if this means
it will work as is, or whether some other wizardry is required.
If its available on Amigakit I might shoot them a query in a few
days when I have some disposable cash to throw at it.

It will likely mean dropping the idea of getting an acrylic case for
the ACA500+ and ACA1233n though. Maybe I could just
make-shift something together from scrap parts.

If this will indeed work then I think one of these and a Plibox will be the way to go.
Satisfies all of the above needs, and saves me fiddling around with null modem
to PC or Raspberry Pi (which I wouldn't have minded really, but still).




[EDIT]

Here I am already planning and scheming more stuff to slap onto my A500,
and my ACA1233n probably won't even arrive from U.K. for at least another week.
Two weeks perhaps, since its good old Kangaroo Post who are delivering it.



Last edited by BadHatGamer; 09 November 2017 at 18:02.
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Old 10 November 2017, 00:18   #14
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i newer get Amitcp working on my setups so i stop trying
Miami was so much easier so i use that instead
yes i know it need that nasty MUI but it can install
whit out that and use as well
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Old 10 November 2017, 00:36   #15
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If you can use SLIP, configuration is just a matter of inserting a line or two in a config file.
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Old 10 November 2017, 05:22   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codetsu View Post
i newer get Amitcp working on my setups so i stop trying
Miami was so much easier so i use that instead
yes i know it need that nasty MUI but it can install
whit out that and use as well
Nothing wrong with MUI, but you're right in that AmiTCP can be frustrating.
I've not used Miami so I can't say anything there.

The only reason I prefer not to use MUI is because (from what I know)
it uses up valuable chip ram that is better spent on WHDLoad games.
I'm on an A500 with enough fast ram, but only 1mb chip ram after all.
1mb has proven enough to run virtually all the games I want to, but
it does so only by a small margin - so anything that eats up more than
a few KB of chip ram is going to get in WHDLoad's way.
I'll probably end up having two WB3.1 CF cards - one for WHDLoad
and another for running virtually everything else (with MUI etc).

I definitely prefer using MUI when in UAE emulation though,
because I can throw as much chip ram as I want at it.
Either that, or I fire up my old PowerMac G4 with MorphOS
and reboot every 30 minutes. I really should get a license.


Last edited by BadHatGamer; 10 November 2017 at 05:38.
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Old 10 November 2017, 12:57   #17
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With TCP/IP stacks, you really can't go wrong with RoadShow. Worth every penny.
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Old 10 November 2017, 13:18   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHatGamer View Post
Ummm.........



Speed isn't really an issue. I mean, its an A500 for cryin' out loud.
I have enough computers lying about, so repurposing one ain't an issue either.
I'm wanting to do it for the above reason - and well......... because I can.

So unless there's a some kind of dual parallel port switcher/adapter out in the
wild (and I don't think there is), the Plibox is a no-go. My only other option
would be to wait for heck knows how long until Individual Computers makes
a network module for the ACA500+ (assuming they actually make one at all).

Maybe someone out there who isn't me could make a dual parallel port adapter.
I'm sure there would be demand and it shouldn't be all that difficult for the
Amiga wizards to design something like this.........

I have a few Parallel and Serial switch boxes and they do work for most things I tried over the years such as printers, sound samplers and a Rombo video digitizer. There is a possibility that they wouldn't work with a Mas player or Plipbox though, no way to know without trying them.
They are available though if you ever decided to go that route.
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Old 12 November 2017, 12:29   #19
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Ok just to update the possibility of using the Prisma Megamix:

I shot an email off to AmigaKit a few days ago. Here's the response.

Code:
Support Ticket Number: 12629
Reply To Support Ticket Here: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/support_info.php?ticket_id=12629
Date Submitted: Thursday 09 November, 2017

The comments for your ticket are as follows:

Hi,

I can't say its ever been tried with ACA500Plus. I know it doesn't work with ACA 1233n clockport, the card refuses to see Prisma.
Wether the ACA500Plus is the same, I could not say.

Unfortunately it looks like this is a no-go, and I'm not big on the idea of shelling out the cash when its not very likely to work at all. An educated guess would be that since both the ACA1233n and the ACA500+ are from the same vendor, the clock ports would be similarly designed in this context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
I have a few Parallel and Serial switch boxes and they do work for most things I tried over the years such as printers, sound samplers and a Rombo video digitizer. There is a possibility that they wouldn't work with a Mas player or Plipbox though, no way to know without trying them.
They are available though if you ever decided to go that route.
Something like this?

Code:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Manual-Serial-Parallel-Switch/dp/B002VXSJNY/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1510485955&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=parallel+switch+box
There's a 4-way unit as well.

I don't see why something like this wouldn't work. Although my technical knowledge of Amiga hardware is limited, I assume its essentially routing signal traffic from one plug to the other via a switch - without any other under-the-hood magic going on. I guess if an extension cable would work between the parallel port itself and a Mas Player or Plibox, it should theoretically work with this as well. Although I wouldn't expect it to be switchable while the Amiga is running of course. A hard reboot would be necessary.

If its gonna be relatively low cost like this is, I might give it a go. While I wouldn't buy a Prisma just to 'suck it and see', shelling out a small handful of bucks isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work and obviously well worth it if it does.

I mean, I spend more than that on pizza for myself and the missus.

There are no sellers delivering to Australia on the link above. Do you know where I might find one thats "Australiable"? ()

Last edited by BadHatGamer; 12 November 2017 at 13:09.
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Old 12 November 2017, 12:59   #20
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Yeah, that's the sort of thing, I have 2 port and 4 port ones for serial and parallel, both manual and auto switching. I used to have a 4 port one on my A1200 parallel port that worked well with the stuff I had at the time, and a serial one on my A500 with a modem on one port and a null modem serial cable on the other that connected my A500 and A1200.
That sux if there's no retailers over there that sells them. You could always try eBay and eBid and see if anything's available, even a used one should do you if its cheap enough. I would dig one of mine out for you but the postage would probably be more than it's worth.
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