Kick Off games vs SensibleSoccer games

[manicx]

Originally Posted by StarEye

The game actually changed a lot more than Kick Off.

Actually, KO2 and KO2 are very different. Although the graphics are very similar, the engine is different.

Oh and Goal! shouldn't even be included in the Kick Off series. But you could add a lot of the extra Kick Off games, and why do you keep forgetting Kick Off 3 and Kick Off 96 and such? They are a part of the series. Which means there also was a lot of Kick Off games. Sure the gameplay changed a LOT after Kick Off 2, but was it for the better? At least, Sensible only got better. If only the original Kick Off 2 was improved upon instead of completely giving up what made the game so good.

Goal! was designed to be KO3. Anco got the rights of the KO name and Dino Dini got the source code together with all the other KO games when he left Anco. Since he had not the rights, he used a different name. The engine behind it is based on KO2 so I can't see why this should not be included here. The only difference is in the name but programming-wise, it's KO2.

Goal! or Soccer incorporated many new features and in my opinion it is miles ahead of SS. KO2 didn't get better because it's already excellent. After all, it got many upgrades with v1.2, v1.4, v1.6e (expanded), FW, Return to Europe. For those who don't know, there have been several releases for each version. For ex, FW got v1.9 and v2.1. Today, we play the original KO2 that is KO2 + World Cup 90 and v1.4e. In the World Cup organised once a year, we use these two versions. My preferred version is 1.6e though.

Kick Off 3 and Kick Off 96, were games that were released by Steve Screech and Anco. Dino Dini was not invloved and since the code of the original KO series was owned by him, these games are completely different. The issue of improving KO2 (with features like 3 subs etc) has been long discussed but since DD doesn't have the rights, he did nothing for it and clearly stated that he doesn't want to do this. On the other hand, DD did improve Soccer for Gens (the Megadrive emulator that can be played online) and is still improving it!

[JudasEZT]

Originally Posted by StarEye

Oh and Goal! shouldn't even be included in the Kick Off series. But you could add a lot of the extra Kick Off games, and why do you keep forgetting Kick Off 3 and Kick Off 96 and such? They are a part of the series. Which means there also was a lot of Kick Off games. Sure the gameplay changed a LOT after Kick Off 2, but was it for the better? At least, Sensible only got better. If only the original Kick Off 2 was improved upon instead of completely giving up what made the game so good.

in this poll I was intended to refer to KickOff games as DinoDini soccer games. That is KickOff, PlayerManager, KickOff2 and Goal! and its possibles extradisks

but I do not refers to KickOff3, PlayerManager2 or next ones.

To me Goal! is the masterpiece.

[StarEye]

Well, the strange thing is though that Steve Screech together with Anco also released Kick Off 2002, which is basically Kick Off 2 with upgraded graphics. That one could be counted too.

Also, I would also like to hear which features Goal and Soccer implemented that were miles ahead of SS (and SWOS... don't forget that).

Why is it that people don't want to compare SWOS to Kick Off 2? Do the already know that SWOS is the better game? If you compare a series, there's no doubt that the Sensible Soccer series have had a a higher ratio of quality releases than the Kick Off series. But we're not doing that. We're comparing games, and I prefer comparing the best one in each series, not the best from Kick Off to the worst of Sensible Soccer. What is it with SWOS that scares the Kick Off fans?

[manicx]

Originally Posted by StarEye

Well, the strange thing is though that Steve Screech together with Anco also released Kick Off 2002, which is basically Kick Off 2 with upgraded graphics. That one could be counted too.

Also, I would also like to hear which features Goal and Soccer implemented that were miles ahead of SS (and SWOS... don't forget that).

Why is it that people don't want to compare SWOS to Kick Off 2? Do the already know that SWOS is the better game? If you compare a series, there's no doubt that the Sensible Soccer series have had a a higher ratio of quality releases than the Kick Off series. But we're not doing that. We're comparing games, and I prefer comparing the best one in each series, not the best from Kick Off to the worst of Sensible Soccer. What is it with SWOS that scares the Kick Off fans?

StarEye, SWOS is not a pure arcade game. It has the career mode in so it cannot be compared to KO2. I didn't want to cause an argument, but facts are facts. SWOS can only be compared to Player Manager. SWOS has a part that is Management and a part that is arcade. Player Manager is also the same, an arcade part and a management part. It happens that the management part is a hell more advanced than the SWOS's one. KO2 is a pure arcade game and SWOS is not. Why should we compare them? If you compare SWOS and Player Manager, I would give PM 70% for the arcade part and 90% for the Management part. SWOS may score 85%+ for the arcade part but <50% for the management part. KO2, SS, Goal! are the only ones that are pure arcade.

As for what features did Goal! have I can list three of the most important ones:

-AI that is unique (just see how the team reacts to different tactics) and compare this to SS.

-Multiple camera views

-New game dynamics (players can accelerate like in real life and they don't have a constant speed + many more)

[StarEye]

You know what, you're facts are wrong. You're obviously afraid to use SWOS as an example, and your arguments are just excuses, no more no less. Sensi started out as a pure arcade game and the last one is still pure arcade game. I suspect every other person on this forum to be able to look past the arcade bit, and see a hundred more valid reasons to compare them than not to. Let's see if you follow this logic:

Kick Off 2 is a competitor to SWOS.
Player Manager is a competitor to SWOS.
Kick Off 2 is a competitor to Sensible Soccer.
Player Manager is not a competitor to Sensible Soccer.

Where is the reason NOT to compare Kick Off 2 to SWOS here? Nowhere. The ONLY difference is that SWOS can compete against TWO games, while SS competes against only one.

Now I ask you; HOW does the fact that SWOS is a competitor to Player Manager AS WELL as Kick Off 2 invalidate the fact that Kick Off 2 and SWOS is comparable?

[Dizzy]

For all the kick off fans do you know Dinos page or else visit this

[Shatterhand]

I think SWOS is the best Sensible Soccer game (As everyone else, I think), and I hardly used the career mode, which I thought to be a complete waste of time.

So, can I compare it to Kick Off 2?

Except the ones in the poll, I think the best soccer games on Amiga are Goal!, Manchester United: The Double and Lothar Mathaaus Soccer (Also known as European Champions and a dozen more of different titles), which makes me believe I like more or less the same kind of games that Stareye likes .

European Champions is very underrated IMO.

Total Football was fun for a while, until I found there were 2 easy ways to score, and any other way of scoring was extremely difficult. But the graphics were pretty good.

[Bombjacker]

Shatterhand said
'I think SWOS is the best Sensible Soccer game (As everyone else, I think)'

I think you should check the poll votes.

41:58 in SWOS' favour is not everyone else thinking SWOS is the best.

[manicx]

Originally Posted by StarEye

You know what, you're facts are wrong. You're obviously afraid to use SWOS as an example, and your arguments are just excuses, no more no less. Sensi started out as a pure arcade game and the last one is still pure arcade game. I suspect every other person on this forum to be able to look past the arcade bit, and see a hundred more valid reasons to compare them than not to. Let's see if you follow this logic:

Kick Off 2 is a competitor to SWOS.
Player Manager is a competitor to SWOS.
Kick Off 2 is a competitor to Sensible Soccer.
Player Manager is not a competitor to Sensible Soccer.

Where is the reason NOT to compare Kick Off 2 to SWOS here? Nowhere. The ONLY difference is that SWOS can compete against TWO games, while SS competes against only one.

Now I ask you; HOW does the fact that SWOS is a competitor to Player Manager AS WELL as Kick Off 2 invalidate the fact that Kick Off 2 and SWOS is comparable?

[Peanutuk]

Right that's enough!!!
Some people like SWOS and others prefer the Kick Off series. You will never ever ever convince someone firmly in one-camp to change to the other. It is pure prefference which no amount of argument or convincing can change. By all means write why you like one more than the other but lets not have this turn into a pointless argument.

[StarEye]

Hehe, I'm not trying to convince him. I love Kick Off 2 as much as anyone else. But I love SWOS even more. I'm just trying to get the facts straight, and I for one can't see any reason NOT to compare SWOS to Kick Off 2.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I'll give it up.

[Peanutuk]

It's OK to compare them ofcourse and to discuss it, but the carefully structured tactical gameplan inevitably degenerates into a blood-soaked free-for-all with a poor mod in the middle!

[StarEye]

No, you're thinking of Speedball 2 or Brutal Sports Football

...

[Amiga1992]

Errr... if the swos vs kickoff pisstake continues, you know what will happen to this thread. manicx, please.

[manicx]

Akira, why did you mention my name there? I am not the only one who posted on this thread...

[StarEye]

Have to agree on that. I was just as much a part of it, I'm just as stubborn

[Amiga1992]

Manic, you know why. Who's the resident utter absolute kick-off 2 fanboi?
I know you will fight this to the end!

Tough maybe you met your SWOS-match with Stareye

SWOS AND KICKOFF SUX LONG LIFE SIERRA SOCCER
;D

[JudasEZT]

the movie Akira is a shit..

[manicx]

Originally Posted by Akira

SWOS AND KICKOFF SUX LONG LIFE SIERRA SOCCER
;D

[Dizzy]

I think this thread sucks, so plz Akira close it..