AmigaOS 3.1.4 withdrawn from market after Amiga

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Minuous

If someone decided to begin a years-long legal battle with Microsoft, for example, it would not mean that Microsoft would have to stop updating Windows for years until it was resolved. So I don't see any reason why AmigaOS should be any different in this regard.

MS has had several very high profile court cases, although none of the recent ones have disputed ownership of MS Windows. If one did, then MS would almost certainly be ordered to stop selling it. Because YOU don't see any reason to stop altering 3.x, doesn't mean you're correct. The thief who stole one of my Raleigh Choppers the other week probably didn't see a good reason not to take it. Does that make it ok?

[IanS]

Originally Posted by malko

To let you know that the point you think you are raising has already been discussed.


But my mistake. I go back to the silent waiting of the result of the court case...

I would imagine that over 50 percent of the topics on this forum have already been discussed at some time. There's very little on here that is genuinely new. Most are just minor variations of a theme.

If only everyone would wait for the court decision *before* starting to change something they quite possibly don't have any right to alter.

[Minuous]

That's not how it works at all: the onus is on the plaintiff to prove their case before any remedy is applied. Otherwise any company could just strategically stop their competitors from conducting their business without needing to ever actually prove their case. If the plaintiff wants something done in the interim they can apply for a preliminary injunction. But Cloanto's application for that was denied by the judge, as their case is weak.

[ronybeck]

Originally Posted by Minuous

First you lie, now you call people thieves.

And anyway, that's not how it works at all, there is a presumption of innocence and the onus is on the plaintiff to prove their case before any remedy is applied. Otherwise any company could just strategically litigate their competitors into oblivion and without even the need for ever having a verdict in their favour. This is basic stuff we were taught in high school.

LOL You learned that at which school? The school of wrongness.

Which episode of Law & Order covered minor commercial disputes?

You don't need a verdict to sue. And yes, you can (try to) sue your competitors into oblivion or sue your own way to bankruptcy. The SCO vs Linux world was exactly that. They sued everyone until they ran out of money (well the judge rule against them nullifying their claim and means to continue suing). But for all involved it was expensive. Apple, Samsung, Microsoft are accused of similar strategies in the past. They sued each other repeatedly. Bit harder to bankrupt the richest companies though. Not hard to bankrupt small Amiga companies though.

[Minuous]

@ronybeck:

Yes, that is clearly Cloanto's strategy. They are probably well aware they don't have a case, but want to bankrupt Hyperion with legal fees anyway.

And yes, SCO did lots of suing, but that did not stop development or sale of Linux in the meantime.

[ronybeck]

Originally Posted by Minuous

@ronybeck:

Yes, that is clearly Cloanto's strategy. They are probably well aware they don't have a case, but want to bankrupt Hyperion with legal fees anyway.

And yes, SCO did lots of suing, but that did not stop development or sale of Linux in the meantime.

Well, lucky that the developers, allegedly, work for free. So Hyperion can afford to continue suing themselves/each other.

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-...-00031-EN.html

It must be awesome to be involved with Hyperion. What are the christmas parties like?

[ma693541]

Read this about Linus Torvalds the developer behind the Linux kernel and the Android operating system and also Chrome OS. Linux is a GNU operating system based on UNIX. He actually started programming on Commodore machines.

[coldacid]

Originally Posted by ronybeck

LOL You learned that at which school? The school of wrongness.

Perhaps Minuous would be considered wrong in Switzerland and the rest of continental Europe, but in the English speaking, common-law part of the world, the onus is indeed on the plaintiff to demonstrate the guilt of the defendant rather than for the defendant to prove their innocence.


Honestly I found your attitude with this particular post to be very insulting, not just towards Minuous but towards all of us who live in nations using common law instead of Napoleon's autocratic civil law system.

[ronybeck]

Originally Posted by coldacid

Perhaps Minuous would be considered wrong in Switzerland and the rest of continental Europe, but in the English speaking, common-law part of the world, the onus is indeed on the plaintiff to demonstrate the guilt of the defendant rather than for the defendant to prove their innocence.


Honestly I found your attitude with this particular post to be very insulting, not just towards Minuous but towards all of us who live in nations using common law instead of Napoleon's autocratic civil law system.

Thanks for your honesty. I don't find it so insulting to us in the "english speaking, common-law part of the world" because it didn't address us in the "english speaking, common-law part of the world". Presumption of innocence is a concept in criminal law. Cloanto/Hyperion, from what I gather, is a commercial/civil dispute. The police didn't come and arrest anybody afaik so it can't really be criminal in nature.

They can remedy commercial disputes themselves directly by coming to an agreement on their own (i.e. discussing it), or use a competent third party (such as a lawyer) to negotiate on their behalf. If an agreement can't be reached and can prove civil law has been broken, you can sue and the matter is decided for you. You can do all of this prior to having a "verdict" (despite Minuous' claim).

To say "this is basic stuff we learned in high school" and then get it so fundamentally wrong (and he/she knows he/she did because he/she retracted the statement shortly thereafter) merits the response given. To use an obviously false claim (civial/ciminal law is taught in high school as a basic skill) to prove the illegitimacy of another claim is comical at best, arrogant at worst. Maybe we in the "english speaking, common-law part of the world" should be insulted here instead somehow.

Minuous cannot be blamed for not understanding the legals in this, and I don't mock him/her for this. I also had to look it up myself and learn a little. And I am sure I got something wrong here as well but the ensuing flame war will point that out soon enough. Why? because neither of us are lawyers. And he/she for sure didn't "learn it" even if it were taught.

To help inform myself a little I found this:

https://yla.org.au/nsw/topics/courts...nd-being-sued/

Quote: You can break both the criminal and the civil law at the same time but you can ONLY be sued if you have broken a civil law.

And this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presum...dern_practices

Quote: In many countries, the presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial

Finally, if you attempt to mock/insult someone or their point by implying they are uneducated (and yes, Minuous did exactly that) then you need to be prepared to take it on the chin. Minuous seemingly has done so plus points to Minuous. Perhaps, coldacid, you can re-evaluate what you find insulting.

[utri007]

This thread title should be changed. As a "AmigaOS 3.1.4 withdrawn from market after Amiga" is not true, even it was a situation.

Wondering how many thinks that there is no way to buy 3.1.4 because of this.

[Minuous]

The terminology used is a bit different in a civil case but the principle is certainly the same: penalties are not imposed until the facts of the case have been ascertained. As you said, the parties sometimes reach an agreement among themselves before then.

an obviously false claim (civial/ciminal law is taught in high school as a basic skill)

Just because it is apparently not taught in your country does not mean it wasn't taught here.

[ronybeck]

Originally Posted by Minuous

The terminology used is a bit different in a civil case......I'm not sure what the point you were trying to make was there.

You did get the first point in the end. In your first sentence even!

Originally Posted by Minuous

Just because it is apparently not taught in your country does not mean it wasn't taught here.

A swing and a miss. The next point is: if you got it wrong, you didn't actually learn it. I can infer that you were not taught it purely from that.

[Zippy Zapp]

Originally Posted by ronybeck

A swing and a miss. The next point is: if you got it wrong, you didn't actually learn it. I can infer that you were not taught it purely from that.

Not that I want to get involved in a minor dispute but just to set the record straight @ronybeck, they did teach all about the legal system and etc, etc in High School here in the USA. At least they did at mine. It was part of Social Studies, a class I happily skipped many times.... Since I was never going to be either a criminal or a lawyer (or both) I gave it a good half-hearted effort!

[SpeedGeek]

... and here we go again (cc = carbon copy):

96 Wed 10/07 2:03 PM
ORDER CONTINUING TRIAL re Parties'95 Stipulated Motion to Continue Trial Date and Related Dates. Jury Trial is CONTINUED to 5/3/2021 at 09:00 AM before Judge Ricardo S. Martinez. Dispositive motions due by 2/5/2021, 39.1 mediation to be completed by 3/17/2021, Motions in Limine due by 4/7/2021, Agreed Pretrial Order due by 4/22/2021, Voir dire/jury instructions/trial briefs/exhibits due by 4/29/2021. Signed by Judge Ricardo S. Martinez.(PM)

So, it looks like Mike B. expects to out-last Ben H. and vice-versa (e.g. neither really cares about the court case - they just care about the endurance contest).

[number6]

@thread

Source

#6

[demon-knight]

Originally Posted by number6

@thread

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#6

Things are starting to get interesting!

[SpeedGeek]

Originally Posted by number6

@thread

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#6

Thanks for continuing your updates here!

BTW, I am no longer providing updates (or opinionated comments) on this topic.

[outlawal2]

Why is this erroneous heading still not updated / change / removed? It is total BS and needs to be fixed

[S0ulA55a551n]

Originally Posted by demon-knight

Things are starting to get interesting!

So they have been granted a six week extension because they have all basically come to and out of court settlement but they just need to cross the is and dot the ts ?

[utri007]

Bad that OS3.1.4 got cancelled and it is not available anymore.