02 August 2015, 14:53 | #181 | ||||||
son of 68k
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There is nothing an Amiga can't do, given enough power. But the same task needs less complexity. Quote:
However, on the Amiga if support stops you're not dead - fixes can still come because the machine is open. Quote:
I've seen a pc laptop just die because its battery got empty while a write disk access was being made - this is what you get for complicated systems that constantly hit the disk. Quote:
Now, all the security stuff on todays machines don't prove they can't be hacked either. But instead of talk, talk, talk, PROVE IT. If an "unprotected" machine is so easy to hack, just do it. That is the ONLY PROOF there can be. Quote:
Did i say somewhere that i intended the machine to be for general home consumer use ? Did i say somewhere that i'd force anyone do disable that damned mp, or that disabling it would be an easy task available for the novice ? Quote:
There are many reasons to have an open system : you may want to bang the metal for the fun of it, for learning, maybe for manual system maintenance. Simply forbidding this, is just stupid. I am not a user on my machine, i am the owner of it. If you want to just be a user, fine with you. Just bear that it might be different for me. Remember : i do not force anyone to disable mp. |
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02 August 2015, 14:54 | #182 | |
Computer Nerd
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Weren't Amigas doing that in the '90s with Real3D V3? |
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02 August 2015, 15:36 | #183 | |||||
Glastonbridge Software
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The same task could be done with less complexity, bubble sort is less complex than heap sort for instance, but it is not as fast. If you are working on large sets of data, you need the complexity to deal with it... or wait all day for your results. And sometimes a task really *can't* be done with less complexity. Sorting is a simple task with more or less complex ways to do it. Some problems are just complex problems. Quote:
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True, and things can be left inconsistent if disks are turned off without being synced, at least Amiga doesn't have that problem, but it is done for performance reasons i gathered. There exist less fragile file system designs now but when power is lost unexpectedly Windows still makes a terrible fuss about it (happened at work a while back, and it had to check the entire filesystem, taking hours for some reason). Then again why exactly DO PCs access the disk so much? I know there is a lot of logging going on. Maybe it's worth investigating how much could be eliminated. I did mount /tmp &c as ram drives already. Quote:
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I say it is because of such a proliferation of online threats, as well as increasingly complex software (bloatware or otherwise), and higher expectations of operating systems generally in terms of security from external threats and internal accidents. People no longer expect a bug in one program to cause a reboot. People expect their OS to be as robust and secure as people know how to make them. That means sacrificing efficiency, but silicon is cheap and people don't mind making that trade-off. |
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02 August 2015, 15:46 | #184 | |||
Glastonbridge Software
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ok, from v2, but it looks like they're doing "CSG" between geometric primitives, like Povray does (also on Amiga!), and during rendering? http://www.realsoft.com/history/ Quote:
(For whatever reason, computation geometry seems to distinguish boolean operations and CSG these days, at least in the literature i've been reading) |
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02 August 2015, 16:16 | #185 | ||||
son of 68k
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02 August 2015, 16:46 | #186 | ||||
Glastonbridge Software
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i just ran ioctl on my (Linux) PC. The biggest culprit for occasional HDD access was Firefox. After i closed that and Thunderbird (the only things running), there was no disk activity at all. I guess mounting /tmp and /var/tmp as ram filesystems makes a difference. Quote:
* Amiga became more secure after software update * One of the most complex software had a bug Usually these things are simple to fix. They are just situations nobody thought of, because you can't think of everything. The more complex the code is, the more things there are to think about. Also i just remembered the things i was thinking about last night, that being the perils of development by teams. Sometimes what you get is two bugs, that are very simple to fix individually, and are by appearance quite unrelated, but it turns out fixing both at once requires a little more care. The problem is, each bug was assigned to a different person... We also had on our team once, a guy who was from a military embedded systems background. He was a disciplined coder, and he knew his stuff, and he'd write some fix and one of us would review it, and it would be very nice and neat and logical, and simple and clear and easy to understand. And we'd go "yeah, that all makes sense". And it would get pushed. And it would break everything. And there would be "oops" and red faces. There exist competitions for writing this sort of code. Quote:
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02 August 2015, 17:08 | #187 |
Moderator
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Make AmigaOS work on a Quantum Computer and then you will have your spiffy new all knowing, all powerful Amiga again.
Amen |
02 August 2015, 17:18 | #188 | |||
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Turing complete machines can do everything that's computable as long as they have enough memory. Whether or not they can do it fast enough is a different matter. Means an Intel 4004 with enough memory can emulate an I7 at the transistor level. Useless, but it can do it. |
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02 August 2015, 17:30 | #189 | ||
Glastonbridge Software
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it's not exactly head-bending, but it takes a lot more code than a simple array and a linear search. you're not arguing about the R/B Tree though i see!
(one day i want to try out my Merkle Tree idea...) Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_representation Quote:
Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 02 August 2015 at 17:36. |
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02 August 2015, 17:46 | #190 | |
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I'm embarrassed to say I've never actually implemented a binary tree before Can't possibly complicated, though Hours? Is that stuff really that heavy? |
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02 August 2015, 18:13 | #191 | |||
Glastonbridge Software
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actually i'll send you a PM but the long and the short of it is, yes, it's a pretty heavy calculation if you have a lot of triangles and you need it to be numerically stable (CAD level accuracy, not just visually good enough for games), and we need it to be interactive. |
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02 August 2015, 18:46 | #192 | |||
son of 68k
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The egg came first |
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02 August 2015, 18:55 | #193 | |||
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i think it was that sometimes you need complex algorithms and data structures. of course you don't need to have a complex operating system to write a complex user program. but if you have a computer with a lot of resources, someone will probably find a use for a complex program, and the more complex the program the more likely it is to have unexpected bugs in it. If the operating system is simple, great! Make it as simple as you can, but no simpler... a simple OS that is unlikely to have bugs, to protect us from complex software that is highly likely to have bugs. That sounds nice. Quote:
if the system is writing to ram disk when it unexpectedly loses power, it's not going to corrupt my physical disk, is it? Quote:
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02 August 2015, 19:28 | #194 |
old bearded fool
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On the topic of "bare metal" without any protection where even disk blocks can be edited on the fly bypassing any file system.
TempleOS: Grand Tour [ Show youtube player ] The guy is clearly an "original", and it takes some patience to comprehend the genius. I was inspired by his coding ideas regarding how an OS should be. A compiler built like an OS where home is a debugger, and it has the appeal of a playground...impressive! Can I play too? Last edited by modrobert; 02 August 2015 at 19:39. |
02 August 2015, 19:44 | #195 | ||
son of 68k
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Furthermore, the used programming language - independently of the compiler's quality - may also be responsible of a lot of additionnal code. If you code in c, your code will be more complex than with asm. If you use OOP, then even more complex. I may also add that the coding style sometimes does more than everything else united... If you want we may try to find a concrete example, coded in various ways, and see how big the differences are. Must have some complexity, not too high. Ready ? Quote:
Who gave you this mission ? |
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02 August 2015, 21:07 | #196 | ||||||
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but the general-purpose library (for GUI, 3D engine or whatnot) has to be able to cope with a broad range of use cases... and there are so many different ones that provide essentially the same features. Frankly i would like to dispense with the lot of them and re-implement them in house. In an ideal world there would be time and funding for that... Quote:
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RTTI adds class information (data) to the output. "Overhead free" exceptions also increase code size (trade off between code size and performance). Quote:
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Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 02 August 2015 at 21:30. |
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02 August 2015, 21:07 | #197 |
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Original is an understatement when it comes to this guy.
God himself told him how to build his OS. And if you wann play,too - feel free to do so at: http://www.templeos.org/ |
02 August 2015, 21:53 | #198 | ||||
son of 68k
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I gave this example before and got no reply. How complex should some PNG decoder be ? I bet you can easily have code that's 20x the size of my own 68k implementation... and even the source may well be much larger than my asm one. Quote:
About FF, you can also observe its memory usage. Gruesome. Oh noes they've found me This is not true I did not tell anything to that guy |
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02 August 2015, 22:01 | #199 |
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02 August 2015, 22:05 | #200 | |||
Glastonbridge Software
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Does it fully implement the PNG format, with all modes and colour depths? Quote:
Also temperature is a consideration. I keep my own PC very cool, and it is not very high-powered. There was a study that showed reliability decreased with increasing temperature. Gaming PCs can get very hot inside... I am only using enterprise grade HDDs from now on and hang the expense. Or SSDs... but for 2Tbs of SSD you are talking serious money. Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 02 August 2015 at 22:11. |
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