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Old 30 November 2016, 19:13   #61
amenophis
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Originally Posted by Akira View Post
And let's remember these are prototypes, test runs, not final product.
This one represent the DarkBlue case Backers will receive.

And yes, same quality as original.

But you'll see that soon when first backers will get their case
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Old 30 November 2016, 22:55   #62
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Better deliver them in December - a lot of people are waiting to get them before backing up the current campaign. In my opinion the keycaps one was started too early...
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Old 05 December 2016, 22:11   #63
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Better deliver them in December - a lot of people are waiting to get them before backing up the current campaign. In my opinion the keycaps one was started too early...
Which in my mind is a totally unreasonable approach to take. Just back both and be patient, the cases are clearly on the production line and will be in people's hands soon.

I honestly don't see how anyone could be holding off pledging for keycaps on the basis that they haven't got their case yet. You might jeopardize the whole campaign by doing that.
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Old 05 December 2016, 22:48   #64
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It's totally reasonable. The only thing that can jeopardize the keycaps campaign are unfulfilled promises. If I read something like this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/1604430

and nearly half a year later not a single case is delivered to the people who already payed for them... you have to understand, not everyone is willing to take the risk.


Of course, I hope the campaign will succeed and we will see new key caps somewhere in 2018...
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Old 07 December 2016, 12:20   #65
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Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
It's totally reasonable. The only thing that can jeopardize the keycaps campaign are unfulfilled promises. If I read something like this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/1604430

and nearly half a year later not a single case is delivered to the people who already payed for them... you have to understand, not everyone is willing to take the risk.
What? Maybe you struggle to read? That posting was clearly about the starting of productions of the _molds_, not the _cases_.
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Old 07 December 2016, 18:02   #66
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Read the whole post. It tells about molds which should be ready late July, case production to be started soon after, and first cases to be sent even before the production ended.

We have December now, and no cases delivered... AFAIK we should get our cases well before Christmas (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...mment-14843388) - how this is going to be achieved, I have no idea.

You really won't convince me. I could take the risk if I wanted just one set - but to realize my crazy idea (inspired by Amstrad CPC 464 and some modern gaming keyboards) I need at least 3 sets, preferably 4. I simply can't afford spending that much on a project which is too risky. And I definitely want to see the quality of my case first.
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Old 07 December 2016, 18:09   #67
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So what, there was a delay. When was the last time new Amiga cases were produced? NEVER. So a mistake in delivery estimates is to be expected.
Quality concerns aside (Nobody can force you to like what you receive in the end, although what I have SEEN seems to me of pretty good quality, photos posted above are good proof), the date of delivery is kind of a non-argument.

Again, nowadays people have this fucking mentality that a project like this would behave like Apple quickly releasing iPhones made by slave kids in south east Asia. This is a homegrown project for a niche community who would benefit from cutting project developers some lack and building up some much needed patience.
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Old 07 December 2016, 18:55   #68
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Compared to just about anything else in Amiga land, these projects are rolling fast.
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Old 07 December 2016, 19:01   #69
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Nowadays people have this fucking mentality that I should happily spend half of the typical monthly salary in my country for a hobby-only gadgets, where the previous project of the supplier already took twice as long as initially expected and didn't deliver anything as of yet.

I only stated what was, in my opinion, a big mistake in the keycaps campaign, which might prevent a lot of people from backing it up. What's wrong with you?
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Old 07 December 2016, 22:08   #70
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Nowadays people have this fucking mentality that I should happily spend half of the typical monthly salary in my country for a hobby-only gadgets, where the previous project of the supplier already took twice as long as initially expected and didn't deliver anything as of yet.
Nobody tells you to spend any money in these things, but expecting niche products to be cheap and quickly delivered is quite delusional.

Nothing is wrong with me, or you, but this kind of attitude is what makes the Amiga a platform impossible to develop anything for.

I have waited, each time, many, many months to receive a 1541 Ultimate for my C64. I never complained. I have top kit, it wasn't cheap, it took forever to arrive in my hands post payment, but it's the best available for the platform and I am glad I have it (just to name one project with similar "issues").

Perhaps you should reconsider your hobbies, seems to me like you are disappointed, and hobbies are meant to be enjoyed.
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Old 08 December 2016, 02:59   #71
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Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
Better deliver them in December - a lot of people are waiting to get them before backing up the current campaign. In my opinion the keycaps one was started too early...
I take your point but the keycaps campaign was repeatedly delayed because of delays to the case production. Only when production began for the cases project did they launch the keycaps campaign with the hope they would soon have lots of pictures and video of production to reassure backers that their cases were imminent, the factory however failed to supply the media files and the guy that was supposed to do it was moved to another production line. The cases runs are probably relatively small compared to what the factory is used to doing so spending time taking pictures and making videos is probably a bit of a annoyance to them when they could be getting on with injection molding something else.

There is a live stream scheduled on the cases kickstarter page for later today - 5pm GMT 8th December 2016 where finished cases will be shown.
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Old 08 December 2016, 09:35   #72
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Originally Posted by Romanujan View Post
.../... The only thing that can jeopardize the keycaps campaign are unfulfilled promises. If I read something like this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/1604430

and nearly half a year later not a single case is delivered to the people who already payed for them... you have to understand, not everyone is willing to take the risk.

Of course, I hope the campaign will succeed and we will see new key caps somewhere in 2018...

Dear Romanujan and to all backers feeling the same,


I can understand your point of you of course.

► Let me get straight to the point:

- Delays was necessary to ensure quality.
That's all. End point.

- If you guys are not happy with delays, ask yourself this question:
Would I've been ok to get my case(s) earlier (6 month) but being faulty or bulky?


Now this below is Delays being explained industry wise.
- Industry is NOT consumers or end users friendly environment.


Why the timeline was so short first place while you may knew you would have delays? (You may ask!)
"The only thing that can jeopardize the keycaps campaign are unfulfilled promises"

- We're not manufacturing pizzas or any sort of cakes.
These are industrial processes we went through. And molds are huge.
In fact these molds are the biggest our manufacturer has done for quite a while now.
Manufacturing molds is a one shot business!
If you miss it, too bad. You need to pay again!

So to be sure that we're not going to waste YOUR money Romanujan, this is in short what we've done. (we've explained it already through campaign updates)

-> 3D Modeling the A1200 case (Top/Bottom shells + parts)
This process took already quite some time.
There is constant double checking & validating with the team on each aspects of each 3D models & dimensions.
-> Handcraft a prototype from 3D models when these are done and fully validated. Many checking before, pending & after handcrafting. Even using the CNC.
-> If handcraft proto is wrong (issues) -> Report issues -> Understand what happened (because fixing without understanding isn't fixing!) -> Assess issues in 3D -> Fix 3D models -> Checking & validating new models -> Approval process (me & team) -> Green lighting for new handcrafted proto to be made and going over the whole process over again.
-> Handcraft proto validated (at least!)
-> Proceeding with Molds tooling + getting metal raw pieces.
-> Testing and checking material (1 was faulty - had to wait some days to get replacement)


---- From here i personally started to freak the hell out!


►That is the one time only shot moment i knew & fully understood this:

►►► If ever I would have validated something that is faulty
-> I would just have wasted all backers money!

Believe me when i say that is the kind of stress you're not prepared for.
I've ran many projects in my life, but projects that involved my own money as an entrepreneur. Not other people money (non associates). And these projects i always was eventually prepared to loose the investment.


This is NOT the same. You backers are NOT associates. You've supported the campaign to build molds and eventually you'll get cases as rewards.
This is how Kickstarter works. Kickstarter is NOT a shop!

So here we go:
1-> Molds starting being manufactured -> STARTING THIS POINT WE PUBLISHED VIDEOS
2-> Molds manufacturing + quality control
3-> Injection tests + refining
4-> Test Cases 1&2 being made at this point & reviewed online.

- We've supplied you backers with constant updates on what was going on, when this was going on, and how things were going on.

- You've witnessed LIVE with us repeated delays.
And each time we shared the reasons with you backers.
That's why we kept updating time lines by pushing them so that you follow everything happening with us all the way to production times.

A Kickstarter project is not something that isn't moving and which is tied to a clock/date.
These kind of project are alive.

  • "unfulfilled promises"
- To my personal point of view and added to the time, hard work, stress and own money i've invested personally on this project, i don't have the feeling that the team haven't done what we've said we'll do!
And we're still doing it!



- To understand a bit more about what lies behind Keycaps project:
> I've already personally invested $5K+ and i still need to cover around $2K for it next week.

>Why do i need to invest my own money when i raise funds on KS?
Because you can't handle that kind of industrial projects by staying behind your computer at home, sipping Mojitos.

You have to meet people, factories, negotiate materials, deliveries, logistics etc.. And a lot of that is on site.
There is no secret here.
People stating that today with internet everything can be done from home are liers. Simply put.
So you have to move your *ss off, pull your wallet out of your pocket and take some damn risks to shake/shape things up.
Entrepreneurs knows and understand what i'm talking about. Others may not.

Sure to make pizzas or cakes, you can always download a recipe, order ingredients online and give a prompt and realistic time schedule to your kids about when their pizza will be ready..
Wait!
Order them pizza hut they delivers home!
Faster and no delays..

Well that's it.. again we're not manufacturing pizzas!

- I've been personally working on keycaps for more than a year now.
Commodore keyboards (and keycaps) are a total mess. That's no secret. And these issues needed to find their solutions. And i did find solutions.
And well... they'll be delivered Q2 2017 at most.
But if you support the Keycaps campaign Romanujan i can always make an exception and deliver you 2018


General info:
I did virtually added 2 extra month on the campaign schedule after manufacturer shared the schedule with me. Just in "case" there is a meteor shower or anything..



Now if Romanujan is still unsatisfied, which again i can understand:
- Why did you never sent us any direct email or message using Kickstarter messaging system? Why?
- We answer ALL messages or emails. Always!
Even it may take a couple days sometimes.

Now, i do understand €99 is an investment for a lot of people, and it certainly is for me.
So even i always stated that the team would never do that, because we can't in fact, i'll refund you on my own money if you're messaging us and stating that you'd like that.
Again this is just for Romanujan.

Also have a look at that:
► In 25years+ since Escom bankruptcy:
-> Name how many projects to really help Amiga were launched?
-> Now name how many of them currently succeeded?

The team behind me, we're among the few that did it and we're pretty damn proud of it!
And this is not the end


And that's all because of our backers awesome support



There is a LIVE STREAM later on (5PM - LONDON Time) Today.
ANY OF YOU ARE WELCOME - ASK ANYTHING!



Many thanks to all of you guys.
I personally feel so proud that our team has such tremendous people supporting us. You guys ROCK and i will never stop saying so!

#AmigaRulez!



- NOW, BACK THE KEYCAPS CAMPAIGN -




Sorry for this long message.
Not a complaint - Just wanted to express myself.

Sometimes i also have to speak my mind and i hope no one in the team will be upset me doing it.
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Old 08 December 2016, 11:23   #73
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I definitely have no problem waiting. My main expectation from this was to get some nice new cases (and hopefully without faults). If I have to wait another 6-12 months to ensure the quality, I'd be fine with that. New cases have not been made for 20 years so one year isn't going to change much. Rather wait a little longer and get something proper. I know that this is not a turnkey project so delays should be expected.

I also think that the information from the team here has been very open and I feel well informed about what is happening, unlike some other retro crowd sourced project I am also backing..

Keep up the good work throughout the last sprint and I am looking forward to seeing the results IRL.
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Old 08 December 2016, 14:11   #74
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With those new cases coming, do any of you know where I can get a custom case badge made?
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Old 08 December 2016, 15:25   #75
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Amenophis has schooled us good eh?
I would love to see a video documentary of the whole process and history, an education for all, especially socialists.

It is lonely at the top.
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Old 08 December 2016, 15:34   #76
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With those new cases coming, do any of you know where I can get a custom case badge made?
I think these badges look great, although they are a bit too thick (can be fixed though). I know they are not your own design but will look good on the new cases.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-Am...-/181959495000
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Old 08 December 2016, 15:50   #77
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Perhaps you should reconsider your hobbies, seems to me like you are disappointed, and hobbies are meant to be enjoyed.
This is probably the best I ever saw you write, lol
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Old 08 December 2016, 15:56   #78
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Originally Posted by demolition View Post
I think these badges look great, although they are a bit too thick (can be fixed though). I know they are not your own design but will look good on the new cases.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-Am...-/181959495000
I just bought a bunch of them, and as you say they are a little thick - but the new cases also have sockets for them that are a little deeper - so for the new cases they are perfect!
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Old 08 December 2016, 16:03   #79
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I would love to see a video documentary of the whole process and history, an education for all, especially socialists.
Oh look, someone from the US saying "socialist" as some sort of insult. How predictable. Thank you for confirming the stereotype, it is adorable.
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Old 08 December 2016, 16:09   #80
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Thumbs up

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Originally Posted by amenophis View Post
Dear Romanujan and to all backers feeling the same...
Well said, I completely agree!
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