CD32 WHDLoad Games: Why no REDBOOK Audio

c0dehunter · 16 August 2020, 21:08

I have the TOSEC collection of CD32 (WHDLoad converted games that is), and for example in CHAOS ENGINE, I can not hear any music during the intro. But my CHAOSE ENGINE CD-ROM in the actual CD32 unit, plays the music.

Galahad/FLT · 16 August 2020, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0dehunter

I have the TOSEC collection of CD32 (WHDLoad converted games that is), and for example in CHAOS ENGINE, I can not hear any music during the intro. But my CHAOSE ENGINE CD-ROM in the actual CD32 unit, plays the music.

Because:

1). The music would take up a stupid amount of RAM
2). To play CD audio you would need the system to do it, and the system is locked out by WHDLoad.
3). Would like hog most of the system resources

So CD music isn't supported.

hexaae · 16 August 2020, 21:57

A CD32 SCSI/ATAPI basic track commands emulation within WHDLoad env, would be impossible to code for a WHDLoad 19 maybe?
Maybe Toni could also help since he's got a long experience with WinUAE...

c0dehunter · 16 August 2020, 22:55

I see, thanks for clarifying this. So WinUAE the second alternative to this then, right?

jotd · 16 August 2020, 23:01

WinUAE will certainly play all CD32 titles with audio, yes. You need to get hold of the .cue/.mp3/.iso files for each game. whdload isn't going to help.

That can be done on a real CD32 too (of course! note that there are unofficial games with CD audio too, using my tool CD32load)... but not on another Amiga. CD32 audio hardware is specific.

power · 17 August 2020, 00:52

anyone have any experience doing this on a real CD32 or should we just burn the games?

jotd · 17 August 2020, 06:41

on a real CD32, you need to burn the ISOs and boot from the CD. whdload is very good, but if you're after CD audio it can't be part of the chain.

power · 17 August 2020, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

on a real CD32, you need to burn the ISOs and boot from the CD. whdload is very good, but if you're after CD audio it can't be part of the chain.

had a feeling that might be the case, makes sense too.

jotd · 17 August 2020, 11:20

if you have a CD32, just download the .cue/.iso/.mp3 and burn with ImgBurn

Shameles plug: there are unofficial conversions with CD-audio tracks here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...2+audio+tracks

hexaae · 17 August 2020, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexaae

A CD32 SCSI/ATAPI basic track commands emulation within WHDLoad env, would be impossible to code for a WHDLoad 19 maybe?
Maybe Toni could also help since he's got a long experience with WinUAE...

Is this technically possible, theoretically?

jotd · 17 August 2020, 16:21

it's not impossible, but I doubt that Bert would want to integrate it. And the code would have to support all those commands directly with hardware banging...

Maybe if someone provides the code... All is possible but that doesn't seem to be within whdload spirit... yet. If Bert supports CD audio he'll want to support ALL CD models. SCSI, CD32, ATAPI, whatever...

ATM to have CD audio you have to:

- use an official CD32 with audio or an unofficial CD32 conversion I did with CD32load, on a CD32
- do that on WinUAE

DamienD · 17 August 2020, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexaae

Is this technically possible, theoretically?

There's been sooooo many discussions about this previously; surely you've read them hexaae?

The answer is no; not without some serious hacks that are not real life and wouldn't work on an Amiga anyway; only emulation.

...and Toni isn't interested, can't blame him to be honest.

Why waste time implementing something that real Amiga hardware can't do?

Toni Wilen · 17 August 2020, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotd

If Bert supports CD audio he'll want to support ALL CD models. SCSI, CD32, ATAPI, whatever...

SCSI/ATAPI is not the problem. It is exact same simple command set.

Problem is that every Amiga HD controller would need separate custom driver. And you would also need ancient SCSI or ATAPI drive because analog CD audio support has been obsoleted ages ago.

hexaae · 17 August 2020, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Problem is that every Amiga HD controller would need separate custom driver. And you would also need ancient SCSI or ATAPI drive because analog CD audio support has been obsoleted ages ago.

Mmmh, I hadn’t considered that with real attached Amiga HW, very good point.

Retroplay · 17 August 2020, 21:36

Could ripping and converting CD audio tracks to 8bit mono 22050 be an option, maybe with some tool type to enable playback of those in WHDLoad ?

For instance, Heart of the Alien Redux (not WHDLoad, I know) use this for playing audio tracks from HD without a physical CD drive.

Quote:

If you want use the HDD MUSIC option, you must convert the CDDA tracks to
8 BIT MONO 22050 HZ SIGNED audio samples and save it into the "data/audio/" drawer
in game directory with names:

AUDIO01.RAW
AUDIO02.RAW
AUDIO03.RAW
...
AUDIO41.RAW

Although it would require considerably more memory to fit in ram, the file sizes isn't too terrible for an Amiga fitted with 32 or more megs of ram.
That of course all depends on the amount of tracks and length of those.
Just a thought, don't know if it's feasible or even possible for WHDLoad.

Retro-Nerd · 18 August 2020, 02:45

Decreasing the sound quality shouldn't be any option at all. And even as lossless FLAC compressed it would take up too much Amiga fastram. Pointless effort imo.

Retroplay · 18 August 2020, 15:00

Have you seen the 22khz iffs in the zone (34MB for all tracks) ?
File sizes aren't that big and sound quality isn't that bad, better than no audio at all.
Sounds pretty ok when played back in Deliplayer.
Anyway, it was just a suggestion as I think Heart of the Alien did a pretty good job doing it this way.

Retro-Nerd · 18 August 2020, 16:57

It was not meant towards you. Even MP3 or OGG isn't a good option. Probably better to code a CD32 emulator which works easy and perfectly fine with all CDDA games.

AmigaHope · 25 August 2020, 07:21

It doesn't even matter if you added a CDDA command emulation as Paula is probably already busy playing game sounds. The only way it would work is if you had another audio device hooked up to play the emulated CDDA tracks so as not to interfere with Paula.

This could be done via AHI but WHDLoad is meant to operate with system-nasty games so AHI would cease functioning.

spudje · 25 August 2020, 17:28

I still think, if you want to go the route of not wanting to use the CD drive, is to come with some CD32 specific CD emulation thing (like a CDROM gotek), that makes the CD32 still think there's a CDROM (with CDDA capabilities) in place.

And then maybe as an additional challenge, you can make CD32Load/WHDLoad have access to the different ISOs stored on that CDROM emulation thing.

They exist for plain ATAPI: https://shop.tattiebogle.net/product...EkTnv3Tk2Trxhf But that's not what the CD32 uses.

16 August 2020, 21:08	#1
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	CD32 WHDLoad Games: Why no REDBOOK Audio I have the TOSEC collection of CD32 (WHDLoad converted games that is), and for example in CHAOS ENGINE, I can not hear any music during the intro. But my CHAOSE ENGINE CD-ROM in the actual CD32 unit, plays the music.

16 August 2020, 21:57	#3
hexaae Bug hunter Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Italy Age: 48 Posts: 2,161	A CD32 SCSI/ATAPI basic track commands emulation within WHDLoad env, would be impossible to code for a WHDLoad 19 maybe? Maybe Toni could also help since he's got a long experience with WinUAE... Last edited by hexaae; 16 August 2020 at 22:05.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Can I play CD32 games (with audio) on my A1200 with a CDrom	trydowave	support.Hardware	48	17 October 2013 09:54
cd-soundtrack for CD32-WHDload-games?	pTah	project.WHDLoad	6	16 September 2013 07:16
Playing audio tracks on CD32 games	BuckoA51	project.WHDLoad	7	27 June 2012 05:32
WHDLoad without CD32 audio tracks	Another World	project.WHDLoad	36	23 December 2008 02:12
Can WinUAE somehow record the audio tracks from CD32 games?	Ironclaw	support.WinUAE	5	30 November 2005 19:46

16 August 2020, 22:55	#4
c0dehunter Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: USA Posts: 399	I see, thanks for clarifying this. So WinUAE the second alternative to this then, right?

16 August 2020, 23:01	#5
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,162	WinUAE will certainly play all CD32 titles with audio, yes. You need to get hold of the .cue/.mp3/.iso files for each game. whdload isn't going to help. That can be done on a real CD32 too (of course! note that there are unofficial games with CD audio too, using my tool CD32load)... but not on another Amiga. CD32 audio hardware is specific.

17 August 2020, 00:52	#6
power Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Brisbane Posts: 36	anyone have any experience doing this on a real CD32 or should we just burn the games?

17 August 2020, 06:41	#7
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,162	on a real CD32, you need to burn the ISOs and boot from the CD. whdload is very good, but if you're after CD audio it can't be part of the chain.

17 August 2020, 11:20	#9
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,162	if you have a CD32, just download the .cue/.iso/.mp3 and burn with ImgBurn Shameles plug: there are unofficial conversions with CD-audio tracks here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...2+audio+tracks

17 August 2020, 16:21	#11
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,162	it's not impossible, but I doubt that Bert would want to integrate it. And the code would have to support all those commands directly with hardware banging... Maybe if someone provides the code... All is possible but that doesn't seem to be within whdload spirit... yet. If Bert supports CD audio he'll want to support ALL CD models. SCSI, CD32, ATAPI, whatever... ATM to have CD audio you have to: - use an official CD32 with audio or an unofficial CD32 conversion I did with CD32load, on a CD32 - do that on WinUAE

18 August 2020, 02:45	#16
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	Decreasing the sound quality shouldn't be any option at all. And even as lossless FLAC compressed it would take up too much Amiga fastram. Pointless effort imo.

18 August 2020, 15:00	#17
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,079	Have you seen the 22khz iffs in the zone (34MB for all tracks) ? File sizes aren't that big and sound quality isn't that bad, better than no audio at all. Sounds pretty ok when played back in Deliplayer. Anyway, it was just a suggestion as I think Heart of the Alien did a pretty good job doing it this way.

18 August 2020, 16:57	#18
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,436	It was not meant towards you. Even MP3 or OGG isn't a good option. Probably better to code a CD32 emulator which works easy and perfectly fine with all CDDA games.

25 August 2020, 07:21	#19
AmigaHope Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Sandusky Posts: 942	It doesn't even matter if you added a CDDA command emulation as Paula is probably already busy playing game sounds. The only way it would work is if you had another audio device hooked up to play the emulated CDDA tracks so as not to interfere with Paula. This could be done via AHI but WHDLoad is meant to operate with system-nasty games so AHI would cease functioning.

25 August 2020, 17:28	#20
spudje Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,406	I still think, if you want to go the route of not wanting to use the CD drive, is to come with some CD32 specific CD emulation thing (like a CDROM gotek), that makes the CD32 still think there's a CDROM (with CDDA capabilities) in place. And then maybe as an additional challenge, you can make CD32Load/WHDLoad have access to the different ISOs stored on that CDROM emulation thing. They exist for plain ATAPI: https://shop.tattiebogle.net/product...EkTnv3Tk2Trxhf But that's not what the CD32 uses.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)