CAPS games

14 January 2003, 14:04

I managed to download Batman the Movie from here before the CAPS games were removed.

I have created the two *.ipf files. I have installed the latest WinUAE and the CAPS dll in the correct location.

I load WinUAE and select the two ipf files in the floppy drives and try to start the amiga. Nothing - just a black screen. Sometimes I can ALT-F4 out of it, sometimes the whole machine is crashed.

What am I doing wrong??

My setup - P4 2.88, Nvidia MX400, 500Mb, WinXP Home user.

Also, where can I get CAPS releases (assuming of course I can get this one to work!)

CodyJarrett · 14 January 2003, 14:09

I don't think that the problem is related to CAPS - it sounds like your WinUAE is not set up properly...

*Cough* IP = codyjarrett.myftp.org Port = 333 Username = CAPS Password = Releases

Ian · 14 January 2003, 14:55

Have you got the CAPS DLL file from the CAPS webste in your WinUAE directory?

With the one disk version you have to disable all other drives other than DF0:

Or put the disk in DF3: as well as DF0:

It's not a bug with WinUAE, it does the same thing on a real Amiga too if you have extra drives.

The 2 disk version might be the same, try disabling everything but DF0:, and if that doesn't work, insert disk 1 into DF3: as well as DF0:

14 January 2003, 15:12

Thanks Chaps!

WinUAE does work with adfs - just not with these ipfs!

Ian · 14 January 2003, 15:34

http://www.caps-project.org/download.shtml

Download the user plugin and put it in your WinUAE directory. If you have done that it should work.

If it doesn't however, I have no clue whats wrong, sorry.

fiath · 14 January 2003, 16:28

WinUAE certainly does work with the IPF's! Don't forget, this is a copy protected game so you need very accurate settings in WinUAE!

The problem is probably your UAE settings. If you do the following it should work:

A500 settings:

Kickstart 1.3
68000 + "more compatible"
Cycle exact setting
Chipset: OCS
512Kb of Chip RAM
100% speed drive

Now, this will take as long as the original to boot, so you may want to wait a at least 3 mins before giving up. There is a black screen initially while booting, but you will get to the main screen eventually.

To check your setup, but disk 2 in DF0 and boot from that, do you get the Batman logo?

IFW · 14 January 2003, 22:08

Both versions of Batman are Copylock protected which is very timing sensitive, some versions of the check routine are extremely so.

You do need mostly correct setup to get Copylock pass properly. Copylock games have more or less strict timing checks, some definitely only work with cycle exact settings, like Cybernoid 2 or even extreme sensitivity on Thunder Jaws.

Jherek Carnelia · 14 January 2003, 22:27

I am having the same problems...

I have followed your config instructions fiath, and if I put disk two in df0 and boot from it, I can see the bat logo.

If I then boot off disk 1 I can get as far as the splash screen of Batman. After that it goes black again for a while and then a very thin (single pixel) line appears at the bottom of the screen and - nothing...

Codetapper · 14 January 2003, 23:15

If the Amiga IPF reading routines were finished everyone here would be able to download the WHDLoad installer, install using the CAPS image and play the game under emulation with *instant* loading, savable high scores, no disk swapping and access faults removed...

If the only way most CAPS images run is by cycle exact emulation and therefore are real-time to load, won't that make most games unplayable? Walker for example takes forever to load and decrunch? And lots of games do not recognise multiple disk drives...

fiath · 15 January 2003, 00:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Jherek Carnelia
I am having the same problems...

I have followed your config instructions fiath, and if I put disk two in df0 and boot from it, I can see the bat logo.

If I then boot off disk 1 I can get as far as the splash screen of Batman. After that it goes black again for a while and then a very thin (single pixel) line appears at the bottom of the screen and - nothing...

This is very bizarre. I have not had a problem. Do you want me to send you my WinUAE config?

fiath · 15 January 2003, 00:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Codetapper
If the Amiga IPF reading routines were finished everyone here would be able to download the WHDLoad installer, install using the CAPS image and play the game under emulation with *instant* loading, savable high scores, no disk swapping and access faults removed...

Err, you can probably do that now...

Anyway, it will have to wait. We are all very busy right now, and unfortunately not even with CAPS. The Amiga library will be done, purely for WHDLoad and Amiga UAE's benefit (nothing else I gather) but we have lives too!

If we were all 20 years old with nothing else to do, CAPS would probably be very different (and probably not all good either!

) but we are not, and are very unlikely to get that kind of free time ever again until we are old and crusty and don't like these "horrible computer games".

Quote:

If the only way most CAPS images run is by cycle exact emulation and therefore are real-time to load, won't that make most games unplayable? Walker for example takes forever to load and decrunch? And lots of games do not recognise multiple disk drives... [/B]

It is not about playing games, it is ensuring we have what was on the original in a preserved form. If it took ages on the real thing, then it will take ages as a CAPS image. CAPS has never been about playing games, it has been about being ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you get what was on the original, and play like the original. The fact that you can play the original (and therefore be certain that any bugs are either emulation problems, or the original game had it) is a nice side effect. Ala MAME.

Actually, that is not quite true, we like playing games too. But it is not really the primary purpose.

It is also about making sure that if you want original games to stay on your original disks, you have a way to recreate them. Of course this part of the project still has a way to go.

Anyway, this is why I for one think WHDLoad is great, and why I never expect to see any CAPS vs WHDLoad threads

because ultimately - we are doing completely different things.

If you want to have a lovely environment for your games, with enhancements you wish were in the real game - then use WHDLoad, if you want to play the *real deal* then use the CAPS images.

Eventually, we will never again have the problem of "the crack has bugs".

15 January 2003, 01:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Codetapper
If the Amiga IPF reading routines were finished everyone here would be able to download the WHDLoad installer, install using the CAPS image and play the game under emulation with *instant* loading, savable high scores, no disk swapping and access faults removed...

Well, I've installed all WHDLoad versions of the CAPS releases without problems using WinUAE. All working 100 % except the 2 disks version of Batman the Movie (unsupported version?)

fiath · 15 January 2003, 01:13

Maybe Wizard Warz doesn't work though huh

15 January 2003, 04:26

Wizard Warz, Time and Magik and Grand Prix Circuit don't have WHD installs.

//update: WHD version of Rolling Ronny doesn't install properly (DIC util cannot create the disk image)

andreas · 15 January 2003, 04:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Codetapper
If the only way most CAPS images run is by cycle exact emulation and therefore are real-time to load, won't that make most games unplayable?

A loud and clear YES, and even worse perhaps:
not even runnable in some cases, unless Toni can be convinced to implement cycle-exact emulation for >= 68020 CPU types, which won't be done in the near future due to the vast complexity of this task, as far as I got the information from him.
If cycle-exact emulation does need to be enabled for a game that requires 68020 or higher CPU, it will not work with current and some later versions of [Win]UAE.
Plain and simple.

Toni Wilen · 15 January 2003, 08:24

andreas, I don't think 68020+ CPUs without ce-emulation are a problem because Amigas with 68020+ CPUs can have very different clock rates, memory speeds etc.. It is not really possible to do copy protection that requires cycle-exact speed and works with different 68020+ CPUs...

I also agree with Fiath about preserving.

Remember that WinUAE's cycle-exact mode was implemented only about 6 months ago (and still isn't too good..) and disk emulation wasn't compatible enough for most copy protections until about 2-3 months ago.

fiath · 15 January 2003, 09:30

You are certainly doing a terrific job with UAE Toni

IFW · 15 January 2003, 09:52

Toni: yes, incredible guy!

Rolling Ronny: probably a different version, than what whdload expects. Though I haven't tried.

Cycle exact: on A500 class machines it was expected that those games run on unmodified hardware. On 68020+ Copylock original only works with caches disabled, or does not work at all, it depends on the version used. A 68020 (afaik works only on this cpu maybe 68030 as well) version does exist, found on Exile AGA, Odyssey etc. that works slightly differently.
The development of this protection system was halted around 1991, so this is ok behaviour as it was meant for playing original games on unmodified hardware, mostly stock A500, A500+, A600 etc hardware.
There is much worse stuff out, than Copylock

IFW · 15 January 2003, 10:16

Rolling Ronny: just checked the install, according to the info it is for the coverdisk version only. I guess it expects a fully ados disk, which RR certainly isn't, it is heavily protected with a later CHW format.
Btw: whdload works with uae and ipf files so long whdload works with the same version as it is preserved with the ipf file. Unless we say otherwise, it is always a retail version of a game, some may be printed in very low quantities, others are common.
Batman slides in the menu picture on an A500, the ipf running natively of course does the same, but the installed version does not - is it an emulation issue?

15 January 2003, 13:56

Umm...
Didn't expect to start all this!

Fiath could you put your config in the zone for me plz?

(btw I didn't mean that ipfs don't work with WinUAE what I meant was that my WinUAE is working, but I am having problems with ipfs!)

14 January 2003, 14:04	#1
Iron Butterfly Posts: n/a	CAPS games I managed to download Batman the Movie from here before the CAPS games were removed. I have created the two *.ipf files. I have installed the latest WinUAE and the CAPS dll in the correct location. I load WinUAE and select the two ipf files in the floppy drives and try to start the amiga. Nothing - just a black screen. Sometimes I can ALT-F4 out of it, sometimes the whole machine is crashed. What am I doing wrong?? My setup - P4 2.88, Nvidia MX400, 500Mb, WinXP Home user. Also, where can I get CAPS releases (assuming of course I can get this one to work!)

14 January 2003, 23:15	#9
Codetapper 2 contact me: email only! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Auckland / New Zealand Posts: 3,182	WHDLoad support... If the Amiga IPF reading routines were finished everyone here would be able to download the WHDLoad installer, install using the CAPS image and play the game under emulation with instant loading, savable high scores, no disk swapping and access faults removed... If the only way most CAPS images run is by cycle exact emulation and therefore are real-time to load, won't that make most games unplayable? Walker for example takes forever to load and decrunch? And lots of games do not recognise multiple disk drives...

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14 January 2003, 14:09	#2
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	I don't think that the problem is related to CAPS - it sounds like your WinUAE is not set up properly... Cough IP = codyjarrett.myftp.org Port = 333 Username = CAPS Password = Releases

14 January 2003, 14:55	#3
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	Have you got the CAPS DLL file from the CAPS webste in your WinUAE directory? With the one disk version you have to disable all other drives other than DF0: Or put the disk in DF3: as well as DF0: It's not a bug with WinUAE, it does the same thing on a real Amiga too if you have extra drives. The 2 disk version might be the same, try disabling everything but DF0:, and if that doesn't work, insert disk 1 into DF3: as well as DF0:

14 January 2003, 15:12	#4
Iron Butterfly Posts: n/a	Thanks Chaps! WinUAE does work with adfs - just not with these ipfs!

14 January 2003, 15:34	#5
Ian Global Moderator Join Date: May 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 46 Posts: 2,287	http://www.caps-project.org/download.shtml Download the user plugin and put it in your WinUAE directory. If you have done that it should work. If it doesn't however, I have no clue whats wrong, sorry.

14 January 2003, 16:28	#6
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	WinUAE certainly does work with the IPF's! Don't forget, this is a copy protected game so you need very accurate settings in WinUAE! The problem is probably your UAE settings. If you do the following it should work: A500 settings: Kickstart 1.3 68000 + "more compatible" Cycle exact setting Chipset: OCS 512Kb of Chip RAM 100% speed drive Now, this will take as long as the original to boot, so you may want to wait a at least 3 mins before giving up. There is a black screen initially while booting, but you will get to the main screen eventually. To check your setup, but disk 2 in DF0 and boot from that, do you get the Batman logo?

14 January 2003, 22:08	#7
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Both versions of Batman are Copylock protected which is very timing sensitive, some versions of the check routine are extremely so. You do need mostly correct setup to get Copylock pass properly. Copylock games have more or less strict timing checks, some definitely only work with cycle exact settings, like Cybernoid 2 or even extreme sensitivity on Thunder Jaws.

14 January 2003, 22:27	#8
Jherek Carnelia Dazed and Confused Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: portsmouth/uk Posts: 242	I am having the same problems... I have followed your config instructions fiath, and if I put disk two in df0 and boot from it, I can see the bat logo. If I then boot off disk 1 I can get as far as the splash screen of Batman. After that it goes black again for a while and then a very thin (single pixel) line appears at the bottom of the screen and - nothing...

15 January 2003, 01:13	#13
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	Maybe Wizard Warz doesn't work though huh

15 January 2003, 04:26	#14
Uukrul Posts: n/a	Wizard Warz, Time and Magik and Grand Prix Circuit don't have WHD installs. //update: WHD version of Rolling Ronny doesn't install properly (DIC util cannot create the disk image)

15 January 2003, 08:24	#16
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,516	andreas, I don't think 68020+ CPUs without ce-emulation are a problem because Amigas with 68020+ CPUs can have very different clock rates, memory speeds etc.. It is not really possible to do copy protection that requires cycle-exact speed and works with different 68020+ CPUs... I also agree with Fiath about preserving. Remember that WinUAE's cycle-exact mode was implemented only about 6 months ago (and still isn't too good..) and disk emulation wasn't compatible enough for most copy protections until about 2-3 months ago.

15 January 2003, 09:30	#17
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	You are certainly doing a terrific job with UAE Toni

15 January 2003, 09:52	#18
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Toni: yes, incredible guy! Rolling Ronny: probably a different version, than what whdload expects. Though I haven't tried. Cycle exact: on A500 class machines it was expected that those games run on unmodified hardware. On 68020+ Copylock original only works with caches disabled, or does not work at all, it depends on the version used. A 68020 (afaik works only on this cpu maybe 68030 as well) version does exist, found on Exile AGA, Odyssey etc. that works slightly differently. The development of this protection system was halted around 1991, so this is ok behaviour as it was meant for playing original games on unmodified hardware, mostly stock A500, A500+, A600 etc hardware. There is much worse stuff out, than Copylock

15 January 2003, 10:16	#19
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Rolling Ronny: just checked the install, according to the info it is for the coverdisk version only. I guess it expects a fully ados disk, which RR certainly isn't, it is heavily protected with a later CHW format. Btw: whdload works with uae and ipf files so long whdload works with the same version as it is preserved with the ipf file. Unless we say otherwise, it is always a retail version of a game, some may be printed in very low quantities, others are common. Batman slides in the menu picture on an A500, the ipf running natively of course does the same, but the installed version does not - is it an emulation issue?

15 January 2003, 13:56	#20
Iron Butterfly Posts: n/a	Umm... Didn't expect to start all this! Fiath could you put your config in the zone for me plz? (btw I didn't mean that ipfs don't work with WinUAE what I meant was that my WinUAE is working, but I am having problems with ipfs!)

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