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Old 15 November 2016, 07:21   #21
ReadOnlyCat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Yes I have, but I never mentioned that particular screen, nor did the poster I was replying to. The BL is the only screen I recommend to Amiga users, unlike some people who refuse to use their own eyes and go by the dogma that newer technology somehow must be better than older technology, even when used to display images from older technology.
There is some truth to this.
Also images designed for CRT monitors look awfully blocky on very large LCD screens. The pixels that these graphics were designed for were way more rounder than the perfectly square ones produced by 20+ inches LCDs and that is the reason why most emulators and the best upscalers have CRT scanline emulation: the images look noticeably better with these on.

As I said in another post above, it all depends on the job to be done: I am not going to do graphics on a big LCD but for debugging it is much more practical.

Thanks for all your responses!
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Old 15 November 2016, 13:49   #22
idrougge
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I don't understand why people blame poor Amiga output with LCDs on pixels being perfectly square. With LCD screens, you always have a scaler between the Amiga and the final output. The scaler can take two paths to rendering the Amiga display on a screen with a totally different resolution than the Amiga's:
1. Map to nearest neighbour. Which means that if you try to map an Amiga resolution of something like 720x576 (it's never 320x200 or 320x256 unless you crop the overscan borders) to a screen resolution of 1280x1024 or 1600x1200, most Amiga pixels will fall somewhere between the LCD pixels. So if you have a row of Amiga pixels like this:
Code:
# # # # # #
you might hope it would be mapped to this:
Code:
##  ##  ##  ##  ##  ##
but because the factor isn't even, it will be mapped to something like this:
Code:
## #  # ##  ### ##
2. Make the image fuzzy. So the pattern
Code:
# # # # # #
will be mapped to something like this:
Code:
#~ ~#~# ~# ~# ~#~
Most monitor try to make the best (but they don't try very hard) out of this situation by combining both methods, or the amount of sharpening and softening can be varied in the settings panel.

But in the end, you never get a sharp picture with square pixels. Method 1 gives you sharp pixels, but not square ones. Method 2 gives you something looking like square pixels, but not sharp pixels. LCD screens expect you to use the screen's native resolution, and everything else is rendered as an afterthought, perhaps even with a helpful warning that you're using the wrong resolution superimposed over your picture. You can see this on even some of the most popular LCD monitors amongst Amiga users, such as the Dell 2001fp (blocky, smeared and irregular pixels) or Nec Multisync 1701 (blocky, irregular pixels). Or you don't see it at all because you're totally insensitive to things such as aspect ratios or sharpness.
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Old 06 January 2017, 06:10   #23
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The best solution is probably to go through a proper 15kHz to HDMI/whatever converter such as the Framemeister.
These kittens will cost you one genital and half an arm but they will get the scaling correctly and offer an enormous amount of configurability. Taking their total life time into account (decades, likely), their high price is quite reasonable in the end.
Also, they emulate scanlines fairly well.
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Old 06 January 2017, 06:55   #24
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Dell U2410 getting a lot of fans on amiga,org,

Apparetly does not do PAL interlaced, but everything else is a goer.

Personally will prolly try a flat screen TV instead. More input choices than a monitor.
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Old 06 January 2017, 16:18   #25
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CRT or die!
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Old 07 January 2017, 01:46   #26
idrougge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
The best solution is probably to go through a proper 15kHz to HDMI/whatever converter such as the Framemeister.
These kittens will cost you one genital and half an arm but they will get the scaling correctly and offer an enormous amount of configurability. Taking their total life time into account (decades, likely), their high price is quite reasonable in the end.
Also, they emulate scanlines fairly well.
Yes, the Framemeister looks really good, unless the monitors mentioned above, but at a price that makes the Indivision look cheap. But I do recommend it.
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Old 07 January 2017, 02:22   #27
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Framemeister price gets a lot of bad rep. I mean, seriously, it's only about 300 dollars, isn't it?
There is a point with this kinda stuff where you have to stop or never be a cheapskate, because in the long run, it ends up being more annoying and costing more.
Good CRTs aren't cheap, and a lot of them don't last long before you need a new one. A PVM/BVM of good quality with RGB is also not cheap. LCDs that are compatible are probably more feeble than CRTs and create all sorts of artifaction even in the best scenario, as explained above.

Personally I might grab an OSSC when it's available next, even though I have plenty of CRT and LCD displays that work fine.
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Old 07 January 2017, 05:02   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modrobert View Post
CRT or die!
No thanks, have picked up enough hard radiation from the things to last one lifetime, thank you very much. It might just be a case of "CRT and die (earlier)".
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Old 25 February 2017, 02:33   #29
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I bought an Asus VW227D but will receive it in two weeks. I wonder if it really works.

Supposedly it does 15khz and 50hz.
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Old 21 March 2017, 06:03   #30
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The VW227D works great. The interlaced mode makes every other line kind of semi-transparent though. Because of that ever other line, pixels from the up and down gets mixed. Superhires looks awful.
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Old 21 March 2017, 16:11   #31
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Can the picture be stretched to 4:3 ratio? Some pictures how well it looks would be nice too
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Old Yesterday, 02:03   #32
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Originally Posted by amigoun View Post
Can the picture be stretched to 4:3 ratio? Some pictures how well it looks would be nice too
https://www.facebook.com/groups/comm...3190948808172/

Most of the resolutions have some upper part of picture cut off. I just realized that. I think the monitor might have some kind of adjustment for that though. I will try it later.
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Old Yesterday, 02:18   #33
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Thanks for the video, the picture looks good indeed. There definitely will be options for picture adjustments in osb menu.
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