YAKS - Yet Another Kickstart Switcher

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by durniplot

I would be interested in a couple of "v1.1's" for A500/A2000, that could hold a 1MB ROM image and be programmed from the Amiga. Couldn't build it myself.

I'm interested, too (one, for my A600HD) .

Which could be a final price, in broad terms?

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

It was a Joke !

You said "you more or less thought of everything", and I replied (not so seriously speaking) "yes, I did really thought of "everything": I started designing the board in such a way that, when presenting it on this forum, this would have forced a comment from a user from Denmark, precisely at the time I would have been in Denmark, so he can advice me on a good restaurant".

So, I was so cool to have started designing a board with the final intention to get a free advice on where to have a good dinner in Copenaghen !

I am a nerd inside, you know

Hehehe.. I like it

[Romanujan]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

- Should more people be interested in further development, I have the will to design an "A1200/A4000" version. How long will it take to this will to become reality si another matter, but at leat you have been warned

This would be very useful, there are gazillions ofKS switchers for A500, A600, etc., but probably not a single one for A1200...

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by Supamax

I'm interested, too (one, for my A600HD) .

Which could be a final price, in broad terms?

You're third in line after E-penguin and springycz, and I have still 1 pcb available, so if you are interested, this last one is yours.
(I mean, the bare pcb rev1.0, without any component, + instructions for building + attiny "firmware").

If you wanted a complete assembled board instead, let me first serve the agreement I have with the two guys above, then I will try to forecast something for you (maybe we would discuss details in PM - in Italian tongue maybe )

Abot the price: good question.
This at the moment is an handcrafted project, designed with simplicity in mind but nevertheless it obviously does not have any economical efficiency.
This means that even if all components are quite common, cheap and easy to find, unless you buy large lots (say dozens/hundreds) of each one, you won't get good prices from dealers.
Building the board is another issue: handcrafting/testing takes me more or less one hour each one. It is obvious to everyone that if I would charge this time over the final cost of the board, the board itself would never be sold to anyone. All in all, it is not a piece of art, so it have to face with market rules.

All this said, a fair target price for a "commercial" version should stay in my opinion between 20 and 30 Euros for the end user.

[E-Penguin]

For comparison, a 2x ROM switcher is about €26 from AmigaKit.
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=947

€30 for a 3x variety seems reasonable, especially if the 2 flash ones can be programmed in-place in the Amiga.

[nogginthenog]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

Building the board is another issue: handcrafting/testing takes me more or less one hour each one.

The board looks great.

Just wondering: There are not many SMD components, I wonder if it would be possible to design the board to use through-hole for easier DIY construction?

[emufan]

do u know about the kick flash project on aminet by RedskullDC?

there is software for in-system programing the flash. I'm sure you could use
that software, if it's somehow compatible to your board.
or at least get some ideas how to do it.

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by nogginthenog

The board looks great.

Just wondering: There are not many SMD components, I wonder if it would be possible to design the board to use through-hole for easier DIY construction?

Theoretically yes, there still exist DIL equivalent for those chips, as well as discrete resistors and capacitors, but I would rather like to go the other way, that is switch to full smd components instead.
This is not a difficult board to build (proof of concept is that I succesfully managed to build some myself ).

Further on, consider that I designed the board with PLCC flash chips for the sole reason I had some of them in a drawer of my workdesk, and that they can be easily fitted into sockets so they can be flashed offline, until I get the onboard flashing to work properly: next board revision will probably be full SMD.

The only drawback I see, is that with SMD we are going to lose the "good old 80's" look and feel.

Originally Posted by emufan

do u know about the kick flash project on aminet by RedskullDC?
there is software for in-system programing the flash. I'm sure you could use
that software, if it's somehow compatible to your board.
or at least get some ideas how to do it.

Yes
It is where all this stuff originally came from.
RedskullDC's software is not directly compatible, but relies on the same concept (better said .. MY software relies upon RedSkullDC's original concept).

[emufan]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

It is where all this stuff originally came from.

ah, nice. it was about time, finaly someone was able to build this board.

[system11]

Originally Posted by E-Penguin

For comparison, a 2x ROM switcher is about €26 from AmigaKit.
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=947

€30 for a 3x variety seems reasonable, especially if the 2 flash ones can be programmed in-place in the Amiga.

Trouble is, they're not in stock. I looked around all the various KS options seem to be sold out. There's a guy on the forum who makes a 2x ROM switcher but then I saw the backlog of orders.

I was about to make something really simple myself, this looks like a cool project though.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by sampedenawa

If you wanted a complete assembled board instead, [...]

Yes, I would prefer an assembled board , and possibly v1.1+ if it will have the ability to program in-place (in the Amiga) the flash ROMs.

I suppose it will have (like it is now) a big non-erasable ROM plus two erasable ones.
Or would it be theoretically possible to have all three of them programmable?
It would require some sort of "backup" Kickstart/ROM, am I right?
However 2 are enough, if 3 was too complex.

maybe we would discuss details in PM - in Italian tongue maybe

"Volentieri!"

I didn't notice you're from Italy, too!

This is not a difficult board to build (proof of concept is that I succesfully managed to build some myself ).

Which type of welder or soldering station do you use? If you have a link (eBay, Amazon, China seller, etc.), I would like to buy a newer one for me - sooner or later - since the two welders I have are big and with non-tiny tips.

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by Supamax

Yes, I would prefer an assembled board , and possibly v1.1+ if it will have the ability to program in-place (in the Amiga) the flash ROMs.

Ok, you definitively need a rev1.1 board

Originally Posted by Supamax

I suppose it will have (like it is now) a big non-erasable ROM plus two erasable ones.
Or would it be theoretically possible to have all three of them programmable?

It does not matter wether if the "big" chip is an original ROM or rather a EEPROM/FLASH. From system point of view, Amiga can't tell the difference.

Originally Posted by Supamax

It would require some sort of "backup" Kickstart/ROM, am I right?
However 2 are enough, if 3 was too complex.

Nope, if you don't plug the "big" chip on the board, the Amiga is still able to boot one of the two alternative KS on flash chips (provided that you selected one of them, of course). If you select "KS slot #1 (i.e. the "big" chip"), simply Amiga won't boot (but you are at any time able to switch KS with CTR+A+A)

Originally Posted by Supamax

Which type of welder or soldering station do you use? If you have a link (eBay, Amazon, China seller, etc.), I would like to buy a newer one for me - sooner or later - since the two welders I have are big and with non-tiny tips.

Nothing particular, any decent cheap soldering station will do, provided you have a nice set of swappable tips. Example could be http://www.ebay.it/itm/SDD-9-STAZIONE-SALDANTE-LAFAYETTE-CON-DISPLAY-LCD-E-PORTASALDATORE-450gradiC-48W/282550604068?hash=item41c9541124:g:uxcAAOSwN2VZVmQx.

You rather should seriously consider the need to buy a magnifier lens or binocular, in order to cope with smd tiny components.

[sampedenawa]

For those who have asked: this is the layout of Rev1.0 pcb:



and this is one of my A500 fitted with the board (as well as with the exquisite PeteAU's 2,5MB ram expansion)



My next short term plans:

- Finalize a Rev1.1 pcb which addresses some minor bugs and with a totally redesigned pcb shape, which will more comfortably fit within the case

- Finalize the on-board flashing capability

- Design an A1200/A4000 version

It will be a sparetime/hobbystic project, so it will take some time, but your genuine interest ont the board is pushing me to it.

[Daedalus]

This is awesome stuff, delighted to see it progressing so well! I had a similar thing in my long-term-maybe-project list, but it was a long way off. If it's flashable from Amiga OS, then that would be excellent!

The A1200 actually has decoding available for writing to flash, perhaps that might even simplify the design of an A1200 version? From memory I think you'd need to piggyback onto Gayle for the required signals, but that's doable.

[system11]

It would be nice if it could be designed to fit in A2000 too - some have a small riser board which replaces a couple of customs on the right side of the socket.

[sampedenawa]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

This is awesome stuff, delighted to see it progressing so well! I had a similar thing in my long-term-maybe-project list, but it was a long way off. If it's flashable from Amiga OS, then that would be excellent!

The A1200 actually has decoding available for writing to flash, perhaps that might even simplify the design of an A1200 version? From memory I think you'd need to piggyback onto Gayle for the required signals, but that's doable.

Good point; do you have any link with information at regards ? (decoding schemes, code snippets, ..... )
I did not have searched in deep for that (my focus has been on the A500/600 version), but it will save me lots of time.

Originally Posted by system11

It would be nice if it could be designed to fit in A2000 too - some have a small riser board which replaces a couple of customs on the right side of the socket.

I have an A2000 in my collection, so I can take it into account while designing the "shape". Thank you to have reminded me.

[Daedalus]

I don't have any code unfortunately, but check out the ROMs page in the A1200 schematic. That includes an option for Flash ROMs, with the various chipset decodes, the programming voltage (probably not needed for modern chips), and a little bit of logic. The Flash select decodes to a different address than the ROMs, so some logic would be required to swap the location of the flash to the write location for flashing, and back to the ROM location for reading. From memory, the flash address was the same as the CD32 extended ROM (next to Kickstart), so it should just be a matter of swapping one address bit (bit 19?) to move it up or down 512KB.

[system11]

The A2000 I have seems an uncommon board revision / hack - here's a photo of one:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/E3YEKqEqleg/maxresdefault.jpg

Cheers,

may I ask for the current state of the project? I love it.

I'm interested in getting 1-2 of these boards. (even if I have to manufcture the pcbs myself...)

Br,

Marko

[spidi]

Originally Posted by system11

It would be nice if it could be designed to fit in A2000 too - some have a small riser board which replaces a couple of customs on the right side of the socket.

There is a similar solution for A500 / A2000
https://retro.7-bit.pl/?lang=en&go=p...name=a500flash