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Old 14 April 2008, 00:39   #1
amigamemo
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massiv direct links of HOL content on EBAY

... i saw some ebay auctions of the user "doctor-nibble" and was shocked about that massiv and shamelessly theft of HOL content. Not only that he grabs tons of screens but also copied the complete site structure of games via direct link to HOL's server (traffic theft).

example: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...0%3D%26fvi%3D1


this isn't the first time i saw him doing that.

i think you should do something against it... and why didn't work HOL's direct-link-barrier in this case ?

*wondering*
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Old 26 April 2008, 19:01   #2
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lol, that's a big html copy/paste
-> protection to prevent img leeching activated.
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Old 26 April 2008, 23:15   #3
Chain
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thumbs arent working but you still can click on it and it shows complete screenshot
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Old 27 April 2008, 00:17   #4
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I use the refcontrol plugin for Firefox, and I can still see all the thumbs.

D.
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Old 27 April 2008, 00:43   #5
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Old 27 April 2008, 14:55   #6
Merlin
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Here's a thought guys, please don't flame me, but I felt I had to comment on this.

Doctor-nibble steals HOL site formatting and pictures, which are scans of copyrighted artwork from software, which are actually the rightful property of the original creators and, as far as I know, copyright will still be held by them.

Who is actually the thief in this situation? It's like doctor-nibble is handling stolen goods....but he didn't steal them in the first place.

This is the Teapot calling the Kettle black, methinks.....
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Old 27 April 2008, 15:15   #7
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Hi Merlin,

Found this : http://ask.metafilter.com/37558/How-...hots-in-a-book
I would say HOL is a non-commercial documentation project and so it would be 'fair use' to have to screenshots along with the info.
But doctor-nibble is using them for advertising and even if the use of the screenshots is 'fair', the theft of bandwidth without permission is not.
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Old 27 April 2008, 16:53   #8
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i'm not sure that the copyright applies anyway (referring to what Merlin says).

let's think of a private who sells to another private through ebay the official dvd of Riders of the Lost Ark, and he sports, in his offer a screencap from the game.

i don't know if the copyright is applied: the technicalities on the box would let you think so, but no court in the world would enforce the law for so a little infringement, if any infringement is in existence, even if the single screencap - so the image - is indeed used in a way not intended by the original authors.
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Old 27 April 2008, 17:00   #9
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I also think the copyright on the screenshots (or better on the game itself) is not an issue here.
But using all the images directly from HOL is simply not nice .
RCK has implemented a hot linking block and that's it
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Old 27 April 2008, 22:30   #10
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I think RCK's meassures are sufficiant. That you can bypass tthe protection by forging the http-refeerer doesn't matter for the avereage ebay user.

Ebay Germany doesn't allow for extenal links in auctions, as he copied the HTML code there are links. If you want to shut the auctions down just report to ebay.

Unless the HTML code isn't trivial copying it is a copyright violation. Database contents are also protected by copyright in Germany. Tjough you wouldn't put it to a test at court bacause of the problematic nature of displaying the screenshots on HOL.
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Old 27 April 2008, 23:18   #11
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@ Ganralf

That's exactly my point, thanks for that.

Marco's statement about HOL being a "publication", is something that maybe shouldn't be tested in a court....
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Old 28 April 2008, 01:22   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post

Marco's statement about HOL being a "publication", is something that maybe shouldn't be tested in a court....
err... no i was speaking about using of screenshots on ebay; leech of images from HOL is not a matter of copyright, as they are property solely of the games authors/publishers/holders, of course, but of internet' band abuse, and on the law about it i don't have idea.
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Old 28 April 2008, 09:19   #13
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Sorry Marco, I meant Cyberdruid, I mis-read who posted the comment about "publications"...

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Old 28 April 2008, 09:24   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
Doctor-nibble steals HOL site formatting and pictures, which are scans of copyrighted artwork from software, which are actually the rightful property of the original creators and, as far as I know, copyright will still be held by them.

Who is actually the thief in this situation? It's like doctor-nibble is handling stolen goods....but he didn't steal them in the first place.

This is the Teapot calling the Kettle black, methinks.....
It's multiple copyright here. The most obvious is with the original publishers/developers. There is also copyright in the layout of the HOL site, the selection and arrangement of screenshots, its data etc. Additionally, there is protection for the database and the hard work involved in the form of a Database Right.
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Old 28 April 2008, 09:26   #15
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@Merlicious

interesting my friend.... convincing the convinced..... my best wishes on that one

Personally I cannot understand why not just open it up and be happy that all the hard work of HOL can be used by one and all.... rather than selected use. but hey, thats ground thats been covered in another argument.

I fear my friend, that any attempt to offer a solution that doesn't bolt HOL down even further, will probably result in either flaming or ignoring.

A big shame, as i have nothing but the up most respect for the guys that started it, maintain it and build it... truly hero's of mine..... just IMHO kinda losing sight as to what HOL stands for.... but hey... another argument in another thread.....
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Old 28 April 2008, 11:03   #16
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@ Zetr0

You can't preach to the converted, but then again, I wasn't trying to. I just saw the hypocracy in the comments about the guy on Ebay, copying material from HOL that was already copyrighted to the original developers / publishers, as Cody rightly points out.

Comments about glass houses and throwing stones come to mind.....
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Old 28 April 2008, 11:55   #17
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I'm sure the original publishers and developers can look after their own copyright. We'll look after our copyright and Database Right.
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Old 28 April 2008, 14:18   #18
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@CodyJ

my friend, Database Right only exists in the commercial sense of renumeration, unless of course HOL is not an open source project and infact is becoming a commercial entity?.
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Old 28 April 2008, 15:25   #19
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Check your facts please! That is simply incorrect. A database does not need to be commercial to be covered by the Database Right.

Quote:
Statutory Instrument 1997 No. 3032
The Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations 1997 - continued
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PART III

DATABASE RIGHT

Interpretation
12. - (1) In this Part -
...

"investment" includes any investment, whether of financial, human or technical resources;

..

Qualification for database right
18. - (1) Database right does not subsist in a database unless, at the material time, its maker, or if it was made jointly, one or more of its makers, was -

(a) an individual who was a national of an EEA state or habitually resident within the EEA,

(b) a body which was incorporated under the law of an EEA state and which, at that time, satisfied one of the conditions in paragraph (2), or

(c) a partnership or other unincorporated body which was formed under the law of an EEA state and which, at that time, satisfied the condition in paragraph (2)(a).
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Old 28 April 2008, 15:47   #20
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@cody

firstly i would to refer your post to the answer you gave in post#14 of this thread that make most of this a moot point.

Also in future, when you want to quote the law, please quote it in its entirety as opposed to a few words that could be interpreted in such favour,

to state a database right in an IP law you would have to state HOL is losing out Financially to some one else publishing HOL's work. Now I can see the point of the argument with bandwidth theft, with this I totally agree... but theft of a common resource....

please thats just a joke. you must be insane to think that could be even remotely exist, unless HOL is no longer a common open source resource ?

whom Owns HOL ? you, the team ? EAB ? or the users ?

Why is there no disclaimer on the site ? what about statement to third party information and their property right.

I had hoped you would see reason in this, alas you are totally convinced your interpretation of the Law is absolutely correct, I can only surmise you have not dealt with official legal contracts before.

Yes IP is granted on creation in the UK, but the moment you place this in the public domain, in part or in whole, you cannot take it back out. thats UK law

Database Right`s do not protect content provided by third party... anyway.... this is turning into a troll fest, one should never feed them and my post count is high enough.

please understand cody, the work you and the HOL team have done is legendary, you are indeed my hero's for it... but this retaining of control really is a narrow sighted action...

I just wish you could see that.
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