28 February 2017, 17:20 | #41 |
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So Hyperion has the rights to AmigaOS 3.x and 4.x. I now remember seeing a release of WB recently from them or at least an update. I read the following from a Wiki.
On 30 September 2009, Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga, Inc. reached settlement agreement where Hyperion was granted, "an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x. Does the above mean they have the rights to OS 3.x to develop and give others those same rights if they choose? |
28 February 2017, 20:18 | #42 | ||
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28 February 2017, 21:14 | #43 | |
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Cloanto appears to have the rights for workbench and kickstart for all code up to somewhere in 1993. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS (see the sources about this). |
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28 February 2017, 21:55 | #44 | |
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Also if Cloanto have rights to Workbench and Kickstart and code, what are they doing going around enforcing the Amiga brand, taking down videos on Youtube, etc? Even if we agree, from the little evidence we have, that Hyperion and Cloanto share somehow rights to the operating system and its parts, and a license to sell it and modify it, it is still unsure who, if any, owns the brand and trademarks related to Amiga as a whole, and from the information being available to us throughout the years, it is not clear or any way implied to me that either of these companies own that, having instead just a license to use the names and trademarks in relation to the licenses they may have (ie name of the OS, use for related promotion etc). So why does an A1200 case project, just to name one example. have to seek permission to use the Amiga trademark and name? And who did they get this permission from? This is very important, especially if any money has passed through hands, because it's potentially illegal (for whoever "granted" the permission). And even if there was no monetary exchange, who can give permission to use something they don't own to someone else?? |
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28 February 2017, 22:29 | #45 | |
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Both Hyperion and Cloanto own pieces of the code. Cloanto pre-1993, Hyperion thereafter. The case is simple, Amiga Inc does own the trademarks. This is well documented by the European trademark office for example. |
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01 March 2017, 00:35 | #46 |
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"Well documented" trademarks are no guarantee of ownership. There is title insurance for a similar reason. If the title were later deemed invalid or found to be fraudulent, the buyer lost his investment. For example, let's say Amiga Inc. was financially insolvent and decided to create a new company to pass on all the valuable assets before declaring bankruptcy (one indicator might be a non quid pro quo transfer). Then the new company changes its name to Amiga Inc. with all the debt gone. This would be fraudulent with the ownership of assets remaining with the first company to be handled by the bankruptcy judge (usually sold) to pay to creditors (and stock holders if any money remains). All subsequent transactions of these assets by the latter Amiga Inc. would then be invalid (buyers would be in a similar situation to someone who has bought stolen goods and would lose their investment). This is why it is especially important to have a good contract/patent lawyer to research transactions, especially with shady companies.
Last edited by matthey; 01 March 2017 at 00:44. |
01 March 2017, 01:13 | #47 |
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No it isn't. And besides, creating an installer is easy compared to creating an operating system or an Amiga emulator. Lots of people would be able to make installers if it weren't for the fact that they would risk legal prosecution for it.
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01 March 2017, 01:24 | #48 |
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If people were to donate to the WinUAE team instead of spending money on "installers" for WinUAE then the community would be much better off. That is where the real work is done for which we should all be grateful.
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01 March 2017, 10:17 | #49 | ||||
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Hiyas AK, thanks for replying
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The problem here is that YouTube monetizes content - when I made a video about how to use a hard drive with a ZX Spectrum +3e environment - UMG Media claimed ownership of my work, it was then instantly monetized and I had to threaten legal action to get my work back . Quote:
If they do not own it then this is Fraud my misrepresentation and that shit can carry a 5-25 year prison sentence within the UK Copying it / publishing it - in its entirety is up to the owner - it would be akin to someone taking one of your most tasty music mixes and using that to promote something (adds on youtube) without any agreement with you. I am pretty sure you would be as pissed off about that as I or anyone would be. However we are covered by fair use - for news, parody and satire surely someone could make a report and include many sections of the video under shared use. Quote:
From their website - (about 12GB of content) 1.3 - 3.x Amiga Kickstart ROM's 3.1 - 3.x Amiga Workbench Hard Disk Images and Disk Files. Amiga Forever (pre configured Amiga Emulation) Scene videos What Cloanto ask for in reimbursement is up to them, what you or I are willing to pay for, is up to us - should that we meet in the middle - there you have sale transaction. Truth is for you or I, we don't need or already have the above that Cloanto are offering as such it has no tangible worth to us. But if I could steal your mind for a bit, what about the newbie wanting to get into the scene or the old Skool Coder looking to pick up where he / she left off - there is now a distributable that they can buy - that is arguably a lot cheaper than investing in real hardware. If Cloanto were offering their Premium product for $20 or $15 you would still have people calming it should be free - in fact Cloanto could be offering it for $5 or $2 and there would still be a cry (although not as loud) to be free - I am a firm believer of voting with your wallet if you don't like a service or product - simply don't buy it. |
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01 March 2017, 11:22 | #50 | |
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besides this software doesnt rightfully belon to the community, no matter how the community be defined. even if the curent owners or licensees could be paid off the theater would start over after different groups would get into disagreement about what to do with the source. there is an open source equivalent to the genuine amiga system. aros (68k) it works fairly well if you consider that only two people have put greater amount of their work into it and none of the community coders joined in to improve it. only complaints have been voiced, as if from people who want to own something and have they say, but not to lift a finger to actually do anything. this is the only reasonable, technically maintainable and legally viabble practical option. other than that you can keep talking here for another hundred years. |
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01 March 2017, 11:47 | #51 | ||||
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matthey, i beg you not to spread fud. aros build system is _very_ user friendly. even i have no problem to maintain my local builds on different linux contribs. its just sourcing out the necessary packages, configure and make.
it is very easy to work on the different parts of the source to improve it and be able to check the results in an instant. the usage of metamake and the syntax of the makefiles may be a little orthodox, but i bet it was necessary. there always will be some part of an open community driven project one may not particularly like but can live with it. Quote:
i compile aros with gcc4.6.4 and 6.3.0 both work well. i have had just one bug fixed lately. the code generation of 6.3.0 has improved in comparison to 3.x.x and 4.x.x. it may yet not be on the level of 2.9.0 and lack amiga extensions, but head over to 6.x.x 68k toolchain thread (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=85474) in here to inform yourself more. the patches from that project might even be incorporated into aros backend. one just need to do that. i really have a feeling that the problems of newer compilers with 68k are partly a myth. few days ago i was presented by phx with a testcase he said it failed on 5.x.x. i compiled it with aros 6.3.0 and the result was correct. other than that aros is ready for clang/llvm. you may remember that deadwood evaluated vasm as option and phx even did some feature improvements based oh his proposals. as result it occured that there was no practiical avantage to use vasm/vbcc at this point. Quote:
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01 March 2017, 11:50 | #52 |
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01 March 2017, 11:58 | #53 | ||
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heres the complete aros source for you to browse: https://trac.aros.org/trac/browser you can log anonymously and check it out from svn. the detailed isntructions are on aros page. you can build it yourself in an hour. the only thing you cannot is anonymously commit to the repository. you need an account. and i think this is selfexplanatory and reasonable, right? |
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01 March 2017, 12:07 | #54 | |
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the code integration with aros is already given in a way that you can run amiga binaries compiled along amiga standard apis (such as mui for example) on aros with usually no problem. if there is a problem it can be fixed in aros. amiga is the reference and a common denominator. using aros extensions is an option.
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01 March 2017, 12:38 | #55 | ||
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01 March 2017, 13:34 | #56 | |
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I need to go back and look at it all again. Though its still tricky for me as for me Amiga is 1.3 because thats what I had and used, I never used 3.x so I need to switch over there as well. I actually setup a 3.x under FS-UAE but haven't used it much. I should be able to run AROS68k under FS-UAE until I can fix my Amiga right? Last edited by EugeneNine; 01 March 2017 at 13:54. |
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01 March 2017, 16:55 | #57 |
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Yes.
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01 March 2017, 17:13 | #58 | ||
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certainly open sourcing amiga wouldnt make that much difference for aros anymore, its too advanced by now. but there might be some crucial refferences people would still be thankful about. i know at least staf said something like that. it wont happen though, so no matter. Quote:
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01 March 2017, 17:23 | #59 | |||
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also - there is even an 1.3 skin as far as i remember Quote:
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01 March 2017, 17:35 | #60 |
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Yea, I use FS-UAE. I won't use any windows only software, have been burned too many times in the past with that. Even if WinUAE is a little faster its not worth the hassle of using Windows, I got tired of that a long time ago.
I remember FS-UAE defaults to the AROS kickstart so I can easily change back to that and test. I'm not a gamer so most of what I do is under workbench and its games where compatibility issues usually come into play. |
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