Santa's come early... A new scandoubler from Individual Computers - Page 13

Charlie · 14 September 2008, 20:32

@TC:
Fair, fair...
...TBH my behaviour regarding things Amiga is ruled more by 'I can so I will' than any kind of sense.

Also a big TFT's helping the old peepers...

DamienD · 14 September 2008, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

The scanlines really add to reto experience. I have always found LCDs, which lack them, result in hard jaggy edges in miggy games.

What do you lot think?

I'm with you DDNI... /me loves scanlines but I guess we shouldn't get into this discussion again

DDNI · 14 September 2008, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

I'm with you DDNI... /me loves scanlines but I guess we shouldn't get into this discussion again

LOL DamienD I never thought that I would ever agree with Ironclaw!!

DamienD · 14 September 2008, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

LOL DamienD I never thought that I would ever agree with Ironclaw!!

You didn't as you chose "No, I don't like scanlines." in the poll

Anyway, enough OT from me

DDNI · 14 September 2008, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

You didn't as you chose "No, I don't like scanlines." in the poll

Anyway, enough OT from me

LOL I only did that to disagree with him

Eny- · 15 September 2008, 00:46

Are these limited in quantities? I really want one!

ant512 · 15 September 2008, 12:33

Hmm, well. That was less successful than I'd hoped.

Got the Amiga apart and fitted the Indivision. It doesn't fit securely at all - it clips over the Lisa chip, but as people have already said, a knock will dislodge it and you'll need to take the computer apart to refit it. Just hope it never happens when it's in use.

You can't use the hard disk mounting bracket when the Indivision is fitted. Not too much of a problem; I insulated my hard disk and placed it on top of the Indivision. Hopefully the extra weight of the drive will hold the scandoubler in place. Similarly, you can't use the Indivision and a Prelude 1200 at the same time, as I'd feared. They just won't fit.

Got the VGA socket mounted in the backing plate from a Blizzard SCSI kit. The SCSI kit is in my tower just acting as an extra SIMM socket, so I've never needed the backing plate. Came in quite handy!

Put it all back together - won't boot. It seems my Blizzard 1260 is dead. Nuts. Replaced it with the 1230-IV from another Amiga and it starts up.

The display flickers like crazy when set to the default 1.25x setting, both on my CRT (Samsung SyncMaster 957p 19") and TFT (Hanns G 17"). It's not the monitor flickering, but the signal being sent by the Indivision. Whole chunks of the screen flick in and out and dance about the display. Swapped it to use the 1.0x setting and it's a lot more stable. It still jumps about, though.

The colours are wrong. I think it's shifted to the blue end of the spectrum. White is definitely blue-shifted when I look at the grabs I took in Photoshop.

It's also got the same fringing effect I used to get on my transparent external scandoubler. Whole bands of pixels flick between different shades of the same colour.

I've attached a couple of photos. The first one shows the banding effect. The gradient here is supposed to go from red, through pink, to orange. It's not supposed to turn purple half-way through (with a weird mirror-image below). You can't see it flickering, natch, but it was.

The second photo shows the discolouration problem. The colours are all off, and since when were the shadows in IK+ red?

In summary - the quality of the display is considerably worse than the external Eyetech scandoubler I've already got. At least I didn't buy two, eh?

alexh · 15 September 2008, 14:15

@Ant512
You sure it's fitted correctly? It sounds like a connection problem with the Lisa.

Charlie · 15 September 2008, 14:17

Hmmm, that's bad luck.

Hope your Blizzy isn't really dead - I'd like to think maybe the rebuild process has disturbed the connection between that & SCSI module (not too secure on mine) - does it work with the SCSI module removed..?

Poss about to teach grandmother to suck eggs, so apologies in advance:
Your video issues remind me of a poor connection somewhere...
-Indy to mobo: Mine's a d*mn tight fit - lots of force needed to get it to seat, could your's need an extra shove? Also you may have noted that 'dodgy-looking' cut out of the side of the socket which is to allow room in certain mobo revisions for a resistor (I think) - could this be your issue? Not enough of a cut so the socket isn't fully seated no-matter how much pressure applied..?
-Indy to ribbon cable: secure?
-Ribbon to VGA: secure?
-VGA to VGA lead: Not seating well? The reason I ask is I mounted my connector in the plastic the exact same way it's done with a PC GFX card - The 'nuts' either side of the connector holding it all together... Thing is the plastic is a lot thicker than a blanking plate so they were preventing the cable from making a good connection. I had to counter-sink the 'nuts' a bit.
-GFX drivers: I'm using the HighGFX drivers with mine - the v40_6 released for the Indivision made my display go 'all to sh*t'. The v40_5 works fine - similar issue for you? (won't explain games of course)

Prelude: I don't own one so apologies if I'm way off: Clockport header? AmigaKit stock extender cables / risers for such difficulties. More expense, I know.

Regards.

*Edit*
Bah! alexh does in one line what it takes me an essay to explain!

ant512 · 15 September 2008, 15:21

OK, take two. Blizzard 1260 is definitely dead. Does anyone still repair these? Otherwise I might get one of AmigaKit's 1230s to replace it. 1260s are far too expensive (and totally useless, these days) for me to want to buy another one of those. The SCSI module is on my other 1260 (tower version), so it's not that. I've tried removing the SIMM and it's not that either.

Opened everything up again and reseated the Indivision. This time I get the logo on bootup (aha!) and it works! I still get the occasional flicker, and I also get what looks like ghosting when I switch to the 1.25x setting, but *this* is the kind of output I was hoping for.

I've had to use a longer IDE cable and fit the hard disk sideways so that it overlaps the power socket and the PCMCIA port. How would I go about replacing it with a Compact Flash card?

Thanks guys for giving me the incentive to take it all apart again!

StevenJGore · 15 September 2008, 16:30

I had to tweak my monitor settings to get a nice crisp display. I was getting horizontal "bleeding" because my LCD monitor had stretched the image slightly. This problem didn't exist with CRT monitors, it's these damn fixed-pixel LCD monitors!

Steve.

ant512 · 15 September 2008, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevenJGore

I had to tweak my monitor settings to get a nice crisp display. I was getting horizontal "bleeding" because my LCD monitor had stretched the image slightly. This problem didn't exist with CRT monitors, it's these damn fixed-pixel LCD monitors!

Steve.

Yeah, I just deleted my PAL monitor settings file (which I may have tweaked for the other scandoubler) and it's now stable. However, it might be that it takes a few minutes to warm up, or something...

DDNI · 15 September 2008, 18:34

Guys the pressure required to make it physically CLICK into place is HUGE.... Enough to convince you that you are going to break the mobo!!

My indivision is VERY SECURE it does not pop off with a knock, nor even with me pulling up on it.

If you are finding it pops off easily and gives image issues I suggest giving it a real hard press down. Just ensure that the motherboard is fully supported underneath.

keropi · 15 September 2008, 18:42

yes, like the DCE flickermagic, you need to apply LOTS of preassure... if not then it just pops out with ease!
DDNI is correct!

Charlie · 15 September 2008, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant512

OK, take two. Blizzard 1260 is definitely dead...

There's the Amiga repair centre in France who are generally reported as doing a very good job...
...though at a fair old price.

Hmmm, every cloud possibly has a silver lining...
...if you really can't fix it & sending away for repair proves not to be an option I'd be most interested in discussing a future for it with me - PM me.

gklinger · 15 September 2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

Guys the pressure required to make it physically CLICK into place is HUGE.... Enough to convince you that you are going to break the mobo!!

Uh oh. That worries me. I can barely handle the case of nerves I get trying to insert an accelerator. Took me 20+ minutes to work up the courage last time.

I'm already worrying about where I'm going to put my CF card which currently sits on a piece of cardboard on top of the HD chassis. The IDE cable I got from Amigakit is ridiculously short so I don't have much in the way of options.

Charlie · 15 September 2008, 23:06

Ahhh, after you've cut the end off a brand new GFX card to make it fit in a custom PC & discovered it still works you loose all worries about the robustness of electronics.

Only static is your enemy - unless you physically snap important stuff off.

FOL · 15 September 2008, 23:17

Awwww man, sounds like your all having so much fun with these new boards.

Me wants 1, lol, just a little out of my price range at the moment,

.

keropi · 15 September 2008, 23:58

I just installed mine... it did not made that "clipping" sound and it could easilly detach from Alice... So I removed the whole mobo, placed it into possition, put a THICK towel on it and hammered it a little with the back of a screwdriver... LOL
not it won't move and works great! No matter how much I pressed it with my fingers, it would not fit properly... I have seen the same with fastatas, idefix expresses and dce scandoublers, depends on the mobo and the expansions once installed whether it will just snap on...

DDNI · 16 September 2008, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropi

I just installed mine... it did not made that "clipping" sound and it could easilly detach from Alice... ...

ALICE? Alice? who the fook is ALICE?

15 September 2008, 12:33	#247
ant512 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 965	Hmm, well. That was less successful than I'd hoped. Got the Amiga apart and fitted the Indivision. It doesn't fit securely at all - it clips over the Lisa chip, but as people have already said, a knock will dislodge it and you'll need to take the computer apart to refit it. Just hope it never happens when it's in use. You can't use the hard disk mounting bracket when the Indivision is fitted. Not too much of a problem; I insulated my hard disk and placed it on top of the Indivision. Hopefully the extra weight of the drive will hold the scandoubler in place. Similarly, you can't use the Indivision and a Prelude 1200 at the same time, as I'd feared. They just won't fit. Got the VGA socket mounted in the backing plate from a Blizzard SCSI kit. The SCSI kit is in my tower just acting as an extra SIMM socket, so I've never needed the backing plate. Came in quite handy! Put it all back together - won't boot. It seems my Blizzard 1260 is dead. Nuts. Replaced it with the 1230-IV from another Amiga and it starts up. The display flickers like crazy when set to the default 1.25x setting, both on my CRT (Samsung SyncMaster 957p 19") and TFT (Hanns G 17"). It's not the monitor flickering, but the signal being sent by the Indivision. Whole chunks of the screen flick in and out and dance about the display. Swapped it to use the 1.0x setting and it's a lot more stable. It still jumps about, though. The colours are wrong. I think it's shifted to the blue end of the spectrum. White is definitely blue-shifted when I look at the grabs I took in Photoshop. It's also got the same fringing effect I used to get on my transparent external scandoubler. Whole bands of pixels flick between different shades of the same colour. I've attached a couple of photos. The first one shows the banding effect. The gradient here is supposed to go from red, through pink, to orange. It's not supposed to turn purple half-way through (with a weird mirror-image below). You can't see it flickering, natch, but it was. The second photo shows the discolouration problem. The colours are all off, and since when were the shadows in IK+ red? In summary - the quality of the display is considerably worse than the external Eyetech scandoubler I've already got. At least I didn't buy two, eh? Attached Thumbnails

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14 September 2008, 20:32	#241
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	@TC: Fair, fair... ...TBH my behaviour regarding things Amiga is ruled more by 'I can so I will' than any kind of sense. Also a big TFT's helping the old peepers...

15 September 2008, 00:46	#246
Eny- R3tr0 G4m3r Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lisbon - Portugal Age: 44 Posts: 327	Are these limited in quantities? I really want one!

15 September 2008, 14:15	#248
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	@Ant512 You sure it's fitted correctly? It sounds like a connection problem with the Lisa.

15 September 2008, 14:17	#249
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Hmmm, that's bad luck. Hope your Blizzy isn't really dead - I'd like to think maybe the rebuild process has disturbed the connection between that & SCSI module (not too secure on mine) - does it work with the SCSI module removed..? Poss about to teach grandmother to suck eggs, so apologies in advance: Your video issues remind me of a poor connection somewhere... -Indy to mobo: Mine's a dmn tight fit - lots of force needed to get it to seat, could your's need an extra shove? Also you may have noted that 'dodgy-looking' cut out of the side of the socket which is to allow room in certain mobo revisions for a resistor (I think) - could this be your issue? Not enough of a cut so the socket isn't fully seated no-matter how much pressure applied..? -Indy to ribbon cable: secure? -Ribbon to VGA: secure? -VGA to VGA lead: Not seating well? The reason I ask is I mounted my connector in the plastic the exact same way it's done with a PC GFX card - The 'nuts' either side of the connector holding it all together... Thing is the plastic is a lot thicker than a blanking plate so they were preventing the cable from making a good connection. I had to counter-sink the 'nuts' a bit. -GFX drivers: I'm using the HighGFX drivers with mine - the v40_6 released for the Indivision made my display go 'all to sht'. The v40_5 works fine - similar issue for you? (won't explain games of course) Prelude: I don't own one so apologies if I'm way off: Clockport header? AmigaKit stock extender cables / risers for such difficulties. More expense, I know. Regards. Edit Bah! alexh does in one line what it takes me an essay to explain!

15 September 2008, 15:21	#250
ant512 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 965	OK, take two. Blizzard 1260 is definitely dead. Does anyone still repair these? Otherwise I might get one of AmigaKit's 1230s to replace it. 1260s are far too expensive (and totally useless, these days) for me to want to buy another one of those. The SCSI module is on my other 1260 (tower version), so it's not that. I've tried removing the SIMM and it's not that either. Opened everything up again and reseated the Indivision. This time I get the logo on bootup (aha!) and it works! I still get the occasional flicker, and I also get what looks like ghosting when I switch to the 1.25x setting, but this is the kind of output I was hoping for. I've had to use a longer IDE cable and fit the hard disk sideways so that it overlaps the power socket and the PCMCIA port. How would I go about replacing it with a Compact Flash card? Thanks guys for giving me the incentive to take it all apart again!

15 September 2008, 16:30	#251
StevenJGore Amiga Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: North Yorkshire, UK Age: 46 Posts: 727	I had to tweak my monitor settings to get a nice crisp display. I was getting horizontal "bleeding" because my LCD monitor had stretched the image slightly. This problem didn't exist with CRT monitors, it's these damn fixed-pixel LCD monitors! Steve.

15 September 2008, 18:34	#253
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,432	Guys the pressure required to make it physically CLICK into place is HUGE.... Enough to convince you that you are going to break the mobo!! My indivision is VERY SECURE it does not pop off with a knock, nor even with me pulling up on it. If you are finding it pops off easily and gives image issues I suggest giving it a real hard press down. Just ensure that the motherboard is fully supported underneath.

15 September 2008, 18:42	#254
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	yes, like the DCE flickermagic, you need to apply LOTS of preassure... if not then it just pops out with ease! DDNI is correct!

15 September 2008, 23:06	#257
Charlie . . Mouse . . Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nowhere Age: 55 Posts: 1,792	Ahhh, after you've cut the end off a brand new GFX card to make it fit in a custom PC & discovered it still works you loose all worries about the robustness of electronics. Only static is your enemy - unless you physically snap important stuff off.

15 September 2008, 23:17	#258
FOL PSPUAE DEV Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales / UK Age: 45 Posts: 6,007	Awwww man, sounds like your all having so much fun with these new boards. Me wants 1, lol, just a little out of my price range at the moment, .

15 September 2008, 23:58	#259
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	I just installed mine... it did not made that "clipping" sound and it could easilly detach from Alice... So I removed the whole mobo, placed it into possition, put a THICK towel on it and hammered it a little with the back of a screwdriver... LOL not it won't move and works great! No matter how much I pressed it with my fingers, it would not fit properly... I have seen the same with fastatas, idefix expresses and dce scandoublers, depends on the mobo and the expansions once installed whether it will just snap on...

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