OFS/FFS and 3.5"/2.5" Hard Disks with bad sectors

[Supamax]

Hi,

I have some spare 2.5" hard disks, but they have a few bad sectors (not incresing with time. They seem "stable").
As many of you know, Windows can mark bad sectors and avoid them when writing data.
I wonder if the Amiga OS can do the same...
If an Amiga HD gets some bad sectors during its lifespan, does it need to be binned or will the OS manage those bad sectors?

P.S. I know that SPS (much more advanced than OFS/FFS) will probably manage them, but I would like to know what the old file systems do when they find them.

[exoticaga]

Make an image of the drive first with copyr and backup that image to another drive in dos (none of this is for amiga dos). This tool can image upto a 40gb drive in demo mode.
http://depositfiles.com/en/files/dyhreq7wj

Free tools for trying to remap your drive are MHDD or victoria, since victoria has gone non dos i would use MHDD. Windows doesn't directly low level talk to a hard drive like dos can.
http://hddguru.com/content/en/software/2005.10.02-MHDD/

Boot mhdd, its important to select the correct drive or you will do damage to one you didn't mean to. Remapping will remap and can/will lose data. F1 key in mhdd will bring up some deatils how to use it, i think it has a manual somewhere i forget.

After remapping the sectors, use the copyr tool to write the saved imaged back to the drive. Keep the drive image just incase your remapping doesn't go as you planned. Drives do remap automaticaly to try and keep healthy. If the bad sectors are not growing and remain steady. Why bother remapping them, sounds if te drive knows best so far.

I would do a scan of the full drive first without any options set, just to see the true condition of the drive first. Or let it loop around and around on the same read test. No damage will be done if only a read test is selected, read is better than verify.

Links not coded for TCD, he really likes them like that. Don't blame me if the site gets bad remarks from their owners of the links.

[Supamax]

Thanks!

So... Amiga OS (OFS/FFS) alone can't manage bad sectors. Strange

[exoticaga]

Its not the os filesystem that manages these lowlevel drive tasks. The drive takes care of that itself without any os help. Like Smart values you read on modern drives, they are independant from any os, another drive lowlevel task.

I don't think playing with the drive, will make it any better. It could go against you and start to play up. If it was mine, i would leave as it if its stable over a long time as you said.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by exoticaga

Its not the os filesystem that manages these lowlevel drive tasks. The drive takes care of that itself without any os help. Like Smart values you read on modern drives, they are independant from any os, another drive lowlevel task.

I don't think playing with the drive, will make it any better. It could go against you and start to play up. If it was mine, i would leave as it if its stable over a long time as you said.

You're not completely right: Ok, Windows doesn't manage those low level tasks (and low-level formatting is never used anymore on IDE drives, apart from some old SCSI drives).
But when you make a complete "deep" check of the hard disk (with single sector check), Windows will remember those ruined sectors and will not use them.

I just thought that the Amiga OS 2.xx could do something similar.

EDIT: I didn't know MHDD or Victoria! Mmmm... I should try them, thanks!

After remapping the sectors, use the copyr tool to write the saved imaged back to the drive.

When I'll use copyr to write the data back to the drive, will it complain about the sector differences (remapped sectors)?
I mean: is copyr "sector-oriented" or does it adjust to the destination drive (can it even be new / different in size) ?

[exoticaga]

Yes ide can still need lowlevel format if you need to do it. Do a secure lowlevel format which is faster than normal lowlevel format. The likes that the hdd manufactures uses when refurbishing drives ect.

One such tool for us to use is Secure Erase (below).

Just don't stop it, once it starts.

Read the pdf and included documents. Don't do it on a laptop it heard i can have problems. Know the default high level password it sets before secure erasing, the docs should tell you this also. Better to use that incase you forget the one you use. Password only needed if the process fails power cut etc for you to try continue later. Password not needed if you let the secure erase finish correctly.
http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/hughes/SecureErase.html
http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/D...onTutorial.pdf
http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/HDDEraseWeb.zip

This will erase each and every sector on the drive, nearly all similar tools won't do that. If you have previous bad blocks they to will be erased, and remapped again later. After this you can play with your drive, it doesn't yet need to be formated to use it with MHDD or similar tools.

Windows only knows about bad blocks because the hard drive has already remaped them. And won't let windows use the bad blocks only the remaped ones.

Try email david hayne or similar person of knowledge for amiga hd knowledge, they may know.

The image doesn't care about any bad, remapped or repaired blocks, its just data and will copy back fine. Make sure you imaged it correctly to start with, read the copyr docs if any are with it. If no docs do a search for another free sector imaging tool for dos, there are so many to choose from.

Try some books or web sites for more detailed informations from. Now at least you have some info that you can use to proceed futher, if you still want to do this.


Overall think of it as backing up your drive data. Then doing lowlevel format then later copying the data back to the drive. Everything will be the same as before.

You want to play with the drive at remapping the bad sectors and such.

Using different correct tools to do this is the only way to do it.

I wouldn't bother if with your drive if the bad sector blocks are stable. But how do you know they are stable if you have not yet run a cycle test with mhdd for example. And then if the drive was a real bad one doing over and over testing can give more problems. We all think and do different and its good to know more, we all live to learn. The only way to know is to try it, even if it means you could do something wrong. That kills your data or your drive.

[Supamax]

Thank you very much for the useful links and info, exoticaga!