Irregular Multiscan video mode scaling

Leandro Jardim · 02 February 2018, 01:36

Hi,

Sorry for asking this again, but I can't make the Multiscan monitor emulation work for me. Does Multiscan emulation work correctly for everyone? The problem is that I can't configure WinUAE so that all Amiga video modes appear in full screen with all the pixels, square. The problem is precisely the Multiscan video mode, which appears all irregular and I need to activate the bilinear filter just for it. This is a very important feature! Is there no way to make it work?

Thanks,
Leandro.

mark_k · 02 February 2018, 15:29

Can you post a screenshot of the problem?

idrougge · 02 February 2018, 15:46

Sounds like a true-to-life emulation of a 1940/1942 monitor.

Toni Wilen · 02 February 2018, 15:47

It can be normal. Some programmed display modes are really weird and only appear normal because real monitor does the scaling automatically.

mark_k · 02 February 2018, 17:53

In display settings, do you have "VGA mode resolution autoswitch" enabled?

Leandro Jardim · 02 February 2018, 19:20

Quote:

In display settings, do you have "VGA mode resolution autoswitch" enabled?

Yes, I have it ticked.

Excuse me, I think I should explain some things. I meant that "Integer Auto-Scaling" works fine for all video modes I've tested, except the Multiscan. For all the Amiga video modes to be displayed the same way for WinUAE I also choose "Automatic" for "Aspect Ratio Correction", I tick "Keep Autoscale Aspect", and for "Keep Aspect Ratio" I choose "VGA". I wanted to use these settings in all video modes to be able to see a clear picture without the use of bilinear filter or shaders.

But it doesn't work that way. I only get a perfect image for Multiscan mode exclusively when I turn off "Aspect Ratio Correction" and "Keep Aspect Ratio". Otherwise, all other screen modes work perfectly.

Let me give you an example, since the dimensions of a NTSC Hi-Res Laced screen are 640x480 and a Multiscan screen too, why the two video modes are so different when I choose "Integer Auto-Scaling" with all those other options? Look at the screenshot image.

In other words, how do I achieve in all screen modes that all pixels have the same dimension with only one setting for all video modes?

Leandro Jardim · 02 February 2018, 21:21

Sorry, I copied the same text twice. Fixed up.

DamienD · 02 February 2018, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leandro Jardim

Sorry, I copied the same text twice. Fixed up.

...and I just added some <Enters> to make it easier to follow

Hard when it's just a lump of text and you get slightly distracted.

Leandro Jardim · 02 February 2018, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

...and I just added some <Enters> to make it easier to follow

Hard when it's just a lump of text and you get slightly distracted.

Thanks, DamienD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

It can be normal. Some programmed display modes are really weird and only appear normal because real monitor does the scaling automatically.

Is it not possible to "emulate" such a real monitor? See, the code for stretching the video mode WinUAE already has, as I demonstrated when I said that I disabled those two options. The only thing that seems to be needed is to disable these options automatically, and one way to achieve this is when WinUAE switches resolution automatically, with "VGA mode resolution autoswitch" turned on or "Resolution autoswitch".

It would be interesting to have this option, since we are aware of some old monitors that can work with VGA and PAL/NTSC signal and make the exchange automatically.

meynaf · 03 February 2018, 09:31

I have similar issues. Normal configuration is PAL (windowed mode). Image is fine.
Now I switch to same resolution but DBLPAL. Image shrinks horizontally.
This does not depend on filter settings.

Toni Wilen · 03 February 2018, 09:56

Standard reply:

Works for me. Config file required. (and which multiscan? There are at least 3 different variants)

(Why multiscan? dblpal/ntsc at least can be useful)

Leandro Jardim · 03 February 2018, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Standard reply:

Works for me. Config file required. (and which multiscan? There are at least 3 different variants)

Multiscan Productivity 640x480. They are the same dimensions as NTSC. But I remember, I used to have this same problem with DBLPAL/DBLNTSC or any driver other than the generic PAL/NTSC.

The types of monitors that supported these programmed graphical modes were rare to see anyone using at that time and all were very specific so I guess it is not too difficult to implement a profile for each one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

(Why multiscan? dblpal/ntsc at least can be useful)

I read several posts in this forum from users saying that use this driver and that it is faster than DBLPAL/DBLNTSC with 16 colors. So I thought, when I buy my computer I'll prefer to use this graphical mode.

The config file is below.

Toni Wilen · 03 February 2018, 13:55

Ok.. Integer scaling + aspect ratio stuff are simply incompatible. It has nothing to do with screen mode, it even happens with standard PAL or NTSC. This would have been a lot less confusing if you would have tested this a bit more and noticed it is not multiscan specific.

No idea if it can be fixed easily.

Leandro Jardim · 04 February 2018, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Ok.. Integer scaling + aspect ratio stuff are simply incompatible. It has nothing to do with screen mode, it even happens with standard PAL or NTSC. This would have been a lot less confusing if you would have tested this a bit more and noticed it is not multiscan specific.

No idea if it can be fixed easily.

I wish I could use "Auto Integer scaling" with programmed display modes like those! And if possible, with RTG too, why not?

Do not feel forced to fix this now, from experience now I know you always carry out our requests. I just wanted to remind you so you do not forget.

Toni Wilen · 04 February 2018, 19:41

Partial fix (or a hack) is in new beta.

Leandro Jardim · 04 February 2018, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Partial fix (or a hack) is in new beta.

Thanks Toni, the beta is working well here.

Leandro Jardim · 08 February 2018, 09:52

Ah, I found a good configuration that I can finally use to work with PAL and Multiscan modes with integer scaling at the same time. And it seems simply perfect.

Strangely, I needed to change the WinUAE aspect ratio correction to 4:3, but my monitor is 16:9 native, so there is something wrong here.

It may be a incompatibility of my monitor with Direct3D applications, or else it's a WinUAE miscalculation, I don't know.

I am attaching a example configuration to share with you guys.

02 February 2018, 01:36	#1
Leandro Jardim Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Legoland Age: 45 Posts: 1,461	Irregular Multiscan video mode scaling Hi, Sorry for asking this again, but I can't make the Multiscan monitor emulation work for me. Does Multiscan emulation work correctly for everyone? The problem is that I can't configure WinUAE so that all Amiga video modes appear in full screen with all the pixels, square. The problem is precisely the Multiscan video mode, which appears all irregular and I need to activate the bilinear filter just for it. This is a very important feature! Is there no way to make it work? Thanks, Leandro.

08 February 2018, 09:52	#17
Leandro Jardim Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Legoland Age: 45 Posts: 1,461	Ah, I found a good configuration that I can finally use to work with PAL and Multiscan modes with integer scaling at the same time. And it seems simply perfect. Strangely, I needed to change the WinUAE aspect ratio correction to 4:3, but my monitor is 16:9 native, so there is something wrong here. It may be a incompatibility of my monitor with Direct3D applications, or else it's a WinUAE miscalculation, I don't know. I am attaching a example configuration to share with you guys. Last edited by Leandro Jardim; 27 March 2019 at 13:37.

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02 February 2018, 15:29	#2
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	Can you post a screenshot of the problem?

02 February 2018, 15:46	#3
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	Sounds like a true-to-life emulation of a 1940/1942 monitor.

02 February 2018, 15:47	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	It can be normal. Some programmed display modes are really weird and only appear normal because real monitor does the scaling automatically.

02 February 2018, 17:53	#5
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	In display settings, do you have "VGA mode resolution autoswitch" enabled?

02 February 2018, 21:21	#7
Leandro Jardim Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Legoland Age: 45 Posts: 1,461	Sorry, I copied the same text twice. Fixed up.

03 February 2018, 09:31	#10
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,323	I have similar issues. Normal configuration is PAL (windowed mode). Image is fine. Now I switch to same resolution but DBLPAL. Image shrinks horizontally. This does not depend on filter settings.

03 February 2018, 09:56	#11
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Standard reply: Works for me. Config file required. (and which multiscan? There are at least 3 different variants) (Why multiscan? dblpal/ntsc at least can be useful)

03 February 2018, 13:55	#13
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Ok.. Integer scaling + aspect ratio stuff are simply incompatible. It has nothing to do with screen mode, it even happens with standard PAL or NTSC. This would have been a lot less confusing if you would have tested this a bit more and noticed it is not multiscan specific. No idea if it can be fixed easily.

04 February 2018, 19:41	#15
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	Partial fix (or a hack) is in new beta.

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