Descent: Freespace

Angus · 23 October 2023, 18:27

I was thinking I'd see about giving Descent Freespace another go. But I'd prefer not to attach a CD drive to my Amiga, so I was thinking I could maybe install on WinUAE and then move the installation to my Miggy on CF card. Is it possible to then run the game with no CD drive attached? Thanks.

Reynolds · 23 October 2023, 21:47

IIRC if you install the complete game, you don't have to have the CD in drive.
Or copy the content of it onto a CF and set with an assign...?

Angus · 23 October 2023, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynolds

IIRC if you install the complete game, you don't have to have the CD in drive.
Or copy the content of it onto a CF and set with an assign...?

Many thanks, Mr Reynolds. Just what I wanted to hear. :-) Anybody tried it with a PiStorm?

Seiya · 23 October 2023, 23:55

It is Warp3D only, so you must have Voodoo3 + Mediator to play this game on 68k

Aardvark · 24 October 2023, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seiya

It is Warp3D only, so you must have Voodoo3 + Mediator to play this game on 68k

Incorrect, the setup has an option for software renderer.

Reynolds · 24 October 2023, 08:25

Yes, and (in theory) a Cybervision 64/3D could also work. BTW anyone ever saw a game running with 3D support on this card?

So the minimum requirements for this game are 040/060 (with FPU I presume), lotsa Fast ram and a video card with 640x480 resolution.

derSammler · 24 October 2023, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardvark

Incorrect, the setup has an option for software renderer.

Yes and no. Both of you are correct. PowerPC version can run with 3D card or software rendering, but 68k version can run with a 3D card only!

Code:

The system requirements of FreeSpace are as follows:

- OS 3.0 or higher
- Graphics Card required

PowerPC: 150 MHz PowerPC or higher, supported by WarpUP, no 3D Card
	 required (a 2D Card like Picasso IV is fine), but graphics looks 
	 better with a 3D Card, 64 MB RAM
68k:	 50 MHz 060 required, 3D Card required, 64 MB RAM. Systems using
	 Virtual Memory with "VMM" can do with 32 MB RAM.

Aardvark · 24 October 2023, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by derSammler

Yes and no. Both of you are correct. PowerPC version can run with 3D card or software rendering, but 68k version can run with a 3D card only!

Code:

The system requirements of FreeSpace are as follows:

- OS 3.0 or higher
- Graphics Card required

PowerPC: 150 MHz PowerPC or higher, supported by WarpUP, no 3D Card
	 required (a 2D Card like Picasso IV is fine), but graphics looks 
	 better with a 3D Card, 64 MB RAM
68k:	 50 MHz 060 required, 3D Card required, 64 MB RAM. Systems using
	 Virtual Memory with "VMM" can do with 32 MB RAM.

Go ahead and try it yourself. Software renderer works with 68k too, though only at playable framerate in UAE or PiStorm.

derSammler · 24 October 2023, 14:24

Just did, seems you are right. Works with software rendering with the PiStorm.

Can't understand why the publisher is too dumb to state the correct system requirements...

Daedalus · 24 October 2023, 14:37

Maybe because, far from being "too dumb", they correctly realised it wasn't possible to play satisfactorily on 68k with the software renderer, and people with 68k CPUs and without Warp3D cards would only complain. It probably runs on a 68040 too, but a 68060 is listed as a realistic minimum. With a 68060 and Warp3D it was only just playable. Devices like the PiStorm simply didn't exist when the game was released and that specification written.

Angus · 24 October 2023, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by derSammler

Just did, seems you are right. Works with software rendering with the PiStorm.

..

May I ask which Pi you are using and what sort of framerate you are getting?

derSammler · 24 October 2023, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Maybe because, far from being "too dumb", they correctly realised it wasn't possible to play satisfactorily on 68k with the software renderer

Unlikely, because if you look at my quote from the readme, they were very honest about the PPC requirements. They stated the game may look ugly without a 3D card. So why didn't they do the same for 68k, stating that it might be very, very slow? But no, they stated that a 3D card is needed to run it at all. I wonder how many sales they lost because of this...

Quote:

May I ask which Pi you are using and what sort of framerate you are getting?

3A+. I did start with 640x480 and maximum details. I would say about 30 fps in open space and down to 10 when being very close to an enemy.

Daedalus · 24 October 2023, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by derSammler

Unlikely, because if you look at my quote from the readme, they were very honest about the PPC requirements. They stated the game may look ugly without a 3D card. So why didn't they do the same for 68k, stating that it might be very, very slow?

Because that sounds quite subjective, and might be interpreted as the game being somewhat playable on 68k. It wasn't at all. Also, there's a huge difference between a game being ugly and being unplayable.

Quote:

But no, they stated that a 3D card is needed to run it at all. I wonder how many sales they lost because of this...

Practically none, because anyone who bought it for their non-Warp3D 68k machine would have likely requested a refund when they found that it could not be played on their machine, or at the very least complained on various mailing lists and caused damage to sales due to poor publicity.

d4rk3lf · 24 October 2023, 18:08

They should have written: "You can take a screenshots with 68k software render"

fryguy · 24 October 2023, 18:18

You could probably use something like this too if you're able to make an ISO of the disc.

https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/diskimage

derSammler · 24 October 2023, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

They should have written: "You can take a screenshots with 68k software render"

And yet they took the effort to compile a software renderer for 68k, as it should be obvious that it's not using the PPC one...

Angus · 25 October 2023, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryguy

You could probably use something like this too if you're able to make an ISO of the disc.

https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/diskimage

Looks great, but no GUI from what I understand.

fryguy · 25 October 2023, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus

Looks great, but no GUI from what I understand.

Not included, but this works fine
https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/DiskImageGui

Angus · 25 October 2023, 19:35

Awesome, thanks Fryguy, I will investigate. :-)

Angus · 26 October 2023, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by derSammler

3A+. I did start with 640x480 and maximum details. I would say about 30 fps in open space and down to 10 when being very close to an enemy.

I can work with that.

What did you do for controls, I gather it needs a CD32 joypad or an analogue pc stick - or a Playstation controller interface.

23 October 2023, 18:27	#1
Angus Amiga Games Database Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South West England Posts: 1,253	Descent: Freespace I was thinking I'd see about giving Descent Freespace another go. But I'd prefer not to attach a CD drive to my Amiga, so I was thinking I could maybe install on WinUAE and then move the installation to my Miggy on CF card. Is it possible to then run the game with no CD drive attached? Thanks.

24 October 2023, 14:37	#10
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,346	Maybe because, far from being "too dumb", they correctly realised it wasn't possible to play satisfactorily on 68k with the software renderer, and people with 68k CPUs and without Warp3D cards would only complain. It probably runs on a 68040 too, but a 68060 is listed as a realistic minimum. With a 68060 and Warp3D it was only just playable. Devices like the PiStorm simply didn't exist when the game was released and that specification written. Last edited by Daedalus; 24 October 2023 at 15:01.

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23 October 2023, 21:47	#2
Reynolds Alien Breeder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szigetszentmiklos / Hungary Age: 46 Posts: 1,096	IIRC if you install the complete game, you don't have to have the CD in drive. Or copy the content of it onto a CF and set with an assign...?

23 October 2023, 23:55	#4
Seiya Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 2,365	It is Warp3D only, so you must have Voodoo3 + Mediator to play this game on 68k

24 October 2023, 08:25	#6
Reynolds Alien Breeder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szigetszentmiklos / Hungary Age: 46 Posts: 1,096	Yes, and (in theory) a Cybervision 64/3D could also work. BTW anyone ever saw a game running with 3D support on this card? So the minimum requirements for this game are 040/060 (with FPU I presume), lotsa Fast ram and a video card with 640x480 resolution.

24 October 2023, 14:24	#9
derSammler Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 1,648	Just did, seems you are right. Works with software rendering with the PiStorm. Can't understand why the publisher is too dumb to state the correct system requirements...

24 October 2023, 18:08	#14
d4rk3lf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia Posts: 1,647	They should have written: "You can take a screenshots with 68k software render"

24 October 2023, 18:18	#15
fryguy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Skarabörg, Sweden Age: 44 Posts: 1,020	You could probably use something like this too if you're able to make an ISO of the disc. https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/diskimage

25 October 2023, 19:35	#19
Angus Amiga Games Database Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South West England Posts: 1,253	Awesome, thanks Fryguy, I will investigate. :-)

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