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Old 18 July 2019, 15:22   #1
hexaae
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Smoother mouse movement under WinUAE

Something I wanted to ask from a very long time...

@Toni
Is it possible to make the mouse movement smoother under WinUAE?
It looks quite jerky at Workbench (1080p@60Hz 32bit BGRA), especially in Picasso EMU. Is it normal? Games run perfectly smooth with G-Sync at 50Hz/FPS on my sys (see signature) but mouse at WB is always jerky... mmh
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Old 18 July 2019, 16:53   #2
Toni Wilen
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Perhaps it only looks jerky if you normally use high refresh rate displays? There is huge difference between 60hz and 100hz (for example) mouse movement, especially with high DPI mouse.

Check that both chipset and RTG mode use same refresh rate because mouse movement is read in vblank interrupt which uses chipset refresh rate.
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Old 22 July 2019, 18:42   #3
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Mmmh… G-Sync won't help (NVidia GeForce Experience FPS counter says 60fps at WB)?
It looks quite laggy… MUCH more then Windows mouse over a 60Hz/fps screen as I tested in some Windows games.

I use PAL + Picasso EMU with a 60Hz WB. Here is my cfg: https://1drv.ms/t/s!ApMUGr0cuN39gcA4...JE9bA?e=ElmDBH
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Old 22 July 2019, 20:17   #4
Toni Wilen
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Test if both Game Ports panel "Windows mouse" and <name of your mouse> have same behavior.

Make also sure triple buffering is not enabled.
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Old 22 July 2019, 20:35   #5
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There are too many factors, and sometimes the factors (concepts) are not clear. If you can film the screen with your phone when it happens, it would give some clues.

I would try Toni's suggestions, and run WinUAE in fullscreen mode with G-Sync off and V-Sync on. It's also necessary to confirm from the log that WinUAE is V-syncing and check that your computer can output enough FPS. Turn on the built in FPS checker and/or compare with FRAPS or similar tool.

Because G-Sync alters the refresh rate of the monitor, it's an extra factor that can complicate matters. It's made specifically for heavy games with uneven refresh rates.
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Old 23 July 2019, 11:51   #6
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Here is a video of my WB: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/453220699## (games won't look smooth because video was grabbed at 60fps and they run at 50fps/Hz thanks to G-Sync)
The mouse at WB is just a bit "jumpy" compared to smoothness of Windows mouse movements.

Setting Windows Mouse mode it changes acceleration and speed but don't make it smoother…

P.S.
… Maybe it's perfectly normal for an Amiga WB 3.9+ and I'm just paranoid/I can't remember how it was on my real A1200 + Blizzard 1260 at that time
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Old 25 July 2019, 02:11   #7
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It looks like you just have a normal modern 800+ CPI mouse. Have you set the factor in WB/Prefs? I have to set mine to lowest AND drag down Control Panel a step or two (and disable acceleration) when I use WinUAE, or it jumps everywhere just like this.

(This is with Windows Mouse selected in WinUAE.)

I don't think this is to do with sync, unless you can see something like 999 FPS in WinUAE.
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Old 25 July 2019, 07:52   #8
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Does the AGA chipset allow to use 35ns sprite positions independent of the screen resolution?
That would effectively allow for sub pixel resolution mouse cursor movement, in particular with high dpi mice. The other question would be if workbench actually makes use of it?
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Old 25 November 2019, 17:52   #9
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Another issue: I've bought a gaming mouse (Corsair Harpoon Wireless mouse) and at resolution over 2400DPI, on 1920x1080 RTG Picasso Workbench it's like acceleration goes inverse!
Expected behaviour: when you move mouse suddenly and faster, pointer should accelerate accordingly...
Seen behaviour: over a certain mouse movement speed it looks like Workbench pointer slows down instead of accelerating. It's like acceleration is too much for old Workbench and mouse moves slower instead of accelerating.

I've set in Game Ports > Mouse speed: 100, and from WB minimum speed + Acceleration ON.

Last edited by hexaae; 25 November 2019 at 18:32.
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Old 25 November 2019, 19:10   #10
Toni Wilen
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It is most likely UAE mouse counter overflow protection kicking in. Overflow would make pointer jump around very annoyingly.

AmigaOS only reads mouse position once per frame which means mouse can't move more than +-128 pixels/frame before it overflows.
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Old 26 November 2019, 00:31   #11
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Maybe it has something to do with the odd fact that "Cycle-exact" makes mouse jerky in some random games?

For example in The Settlers, there is an evident stutter in the mouse cursor, but it disappears right after disabling DMA/Memory Cycle-exact. And for some reason it only happens after the copy protection section, not before..

"Windows mouse" vs "HID-compliant mouse" has no effect and the display is doing 50Hz correctly. Same thing happens with the floppy version on A500 setup and the WHDLoad version on A1200 setup.

Analyzing a video recording frame by frame shows that every fourth frame of mouse movement is skipped.
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Old 26 November 2019, 13:04   #12
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It probably is game problem and has nothing to do with hexaae's problem.

Perhaps protection or whatever takes enough CPU time so that mouse coordinate updates gets delayed and is visible only in next frame periodically.
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Old 26 November 2019, 17:05   #13
Chrille
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
Something I wanted to ask from a very long time...

@Toni
Is it possible to make the mouse movement smoother under WinUAE?
It looks quite jerky at Workbench (1080p@60Hz 32bit BGRA), especially in Picasso EMU. Is it normal? Games run perfectly smooth with G-Sync at 50Hz/FPS on my sys (see signature) but mouse at WB is always jerky... mmh
@hexaae
Maybe it has something to do with your mouse? USB or PS/2?

A standard USB mouse has a query-rate of 125 queries a second and this is a little bit jerky, also when you have 50 FPS. To avoid this, use a gaming mouse, which has at least 250 queries per second (or polling rate of 250 Hz). The mouse query rate should be a multiple of 50 when you have 50 FPS. If you have 60 FPS, the mouse query rate should be as fast as possible. E.g. 500 Hz or 1000 Hz. The fastest possible polling rate of a USB mice is 1000Hz and AFAIK this will be only reached by special drivers.

Once (20 years ago) I had simillar problems with DxBall. The bat was alway jerky and i had to set mouse and monitor frequency to the same rate, e.g. 100 Hz.
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Old 26 November 2019, 17:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrille View Post
To avoid this, use a gaming mouse, which has at least 250 queries per second (or polling rate of 250 Hz).
You must have misssed this part in hexaae's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hexaae View Post
Another issue: I've bought a gaming mouse (Corsair Harpoon Wireless mouse) and at resolution over 2400DPI
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Old 26 November 2019, 18:08   #15
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Yes, sorry, I missed that part. But may be polling rate is not set to 1000 Hz in driver setup?
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Old 26 November 2019, 19:54   #16
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Corsair Harpoon Wireless mouse can go up to 10000DPI at 1000Hz/1ms.
It seems "too much" for old Workbench when you do sudden accelerations
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Old 27 November 2019, 06:34   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
It probably is game problem and has nothing to do with hexaae's problem.

Perhaps protection or whatever takes enough CPU time so that mouse coordinate updates gets delayed and is visible only in next frame periodically.
Sure, most likely unrelated.

Looks like it happens also with the uncracked version. Also does not happen with a real Amiga, but thanks to my CRT being broken I only have a low quality LCD TV, which makes such small things not easy to distinguish, but I think I would remember if it had done that always back in the day.

I'm pretty sure it does happen on some other games too, but can't think of one right now, because it is such a rare thing after all.
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