Simple Workbench Features Missing In Modern Distros?

[offog]

Originally Posted by meynaf

strace only works for single process. It won't survey the whole system.

The (relatively recent) ftrace interface lets you do whole-system tracing by hooking into Linux kernel functions - more or less the equivalent of what SnoopDOS does. There are some handy scripts for this in perf-tools: opensnoop, execsnoop, killsnoop. i did wonder from the names whether the author was thinking of SnoopDOS when he wrote them...

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by paul1981

(which is there mistake really due to poor use of English)

It's 'their', not 'there'

[van_dammesque]

Originally Posted by paul1981

I have a laptop which uses Windows 10, and what strikes me about Windows 10 is how poor the English is - it's like it's designed for babies or people who don't really know English, or dumb people. Unfortunately, this pi*s-poor English has infiltrated everything now including most of the proper sites you'd have to log in to to pay your bills etc. WTF?! Sometimes the English used is so poor I sometimes wonder what they're trying to convey and I get the wrong end of the stick and make a mistake myself (which is there mistake really due to poor use of English).

I wonder, has the same thing happened in France and Germany, or Australia, or USA etc...?

I dislike the 'personal' style of writing, "We're updating things for you". WE? A non-living piece of silicon? Just say updates in progress.

Nods to snoopdos, snapshot, assigns, I'd add KingCon, couldn't you tab and get files in the dir to autocomplete? Latest win terminal you can't even drag n drop like in the old CMD prompt!

[malko]

Originally Posted by van_dammesque

I dislike the 'personal' style of writing, "We're updating things for you". WE? A non-living piece of silicon? Just say updates in progress.

WE M$. WE decide what is good for you. WE silently change the parameter WE dislike you have modified (and WE don't say it as there are chances you will not notice WE put it back as WE want it- or WE inform you that you don't have the necessary privileges to do the change you want). WE do what WE want with your computer as it is OUR OS and WE know what is good for you . Look at this colourful desktop, beautiful icons, useless windows transitions. WE take care of the rest...

[CCRider]

Originally Posted by Geordie-Jedi

On a modern OS, when clicking options to change settings, I'm not a fan of the old -
clicking "Apply", then clicking "Save"

I understand that there are some use cases for it, but I just want to change a setting,
click save once and then be on my way.

The Apply, then Save just seems unnecessary.

AFAIK, Apply is only there in case you want to keep the settings window opened, to try other things.

Otherwise, Save "applies and saves" everything.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by offog

The (relatively recent) ftrace interface lets you do whole-system tracing by hooking into Linux kernel functions - more or less the equivalent of what SnoopDOS does. There are some handy scripts for this in perf-tools: opensnoop, execsnoop, killsnoop. i did wonder from the names whether the author was thinking of SnoopDOS when he wrote them...

Don't you need to be logged as root to use that ?
Don't you get flooded by events too ?
Does it really work on all systems ?

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by malko

But it has to, otherwise it is a bug that has to be corrected asap.

But the same is true if just dismissing the dialog is supposed to save the preferences. If it doesn't save, then it's the exact same bug.

It's like the little button on pedestrian crossings, 90% of the lights used don't pay any attention to it at all - they just run on a fixed schedule (or a schedule modified by traffic flow). The button is placed at every crossing though as a pure placebo.

[malko]

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

But the same is true if just dismissing the dialog is supposed to save the preferences. If it doesn't save, then it's the exact same bug. [...]

But have you been there to change something or simply to look at something by interacting with the various options. That you interact with the options doesn't means at all you want something to be saved. So dismissing a windows does not require a save.

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

[...] It's like the little button on pedestrian crossings, 90% of the lights used don't pay any attention to it at all - they just run on a fixed schedule (or a schedule modified by traffic flow). The button is placed at every crossing though as a pure placebo.

In this movie it is stated that open/close doors on lifts are placebo as well :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_..._Paul_Sneijder

But, like your pedestrian example, I don't know if it is true or not.

[Geordie-Jedi]

Originally Posted by CCRider

AFAIK, Apply is only there in case you want to keep the settings window opened, to try other things.

Otherwise, Save "applies and saves" everything.

Really ? That's very interesting.
Thanks for pointing this out.

[malko]

Originally Posted by van_dammesque

I dislike the 'personal' style of writing, "We're updating things for you". WE?[...]

By the way, an interesting reading (and don't forget that M$ owns as well hotmail and LinkedIn to mention only two others well known data services) :
https://proton.me/blog/outlook-is-mi...ection-service

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by malko

WE M$. WE decide what is good for you. WE silently change the parameter WE dislike you have modified (and WE don't say it as there are chances you will not notice WE put it back as WE want it- or WE inform you that you don't have the necessary privileges to do the change you want). WE do what WE want with your computer as it is OUR OS and WE know what is good for you . Look at this colourful desktop, beautiful icons, useless windows transitions. WE take care of the rest...

...and these push ads, and this nifty thing we're sure you need - that tells us about everything you do so we can target you with even more ads. You think you own this computer? Think again. You didn't buy the product, you are the product!

[Locutus]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Don't you need to be logged as root to use that ?

You can either inspect processes inside your own user's process space or run as root and inspect system wide, this is a feature.


Security separation is a thing, i wouldn't want parts of the system that are isolated on purpose to be able to inspect each other. On a development setup of course, just do a `sudo` if its your own code.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Don't you get flooded by events too ?

Filtering is a thing, there's arguments on the tools themselves, egrep, multitail, etc. You need to know how to use your tool, and the tool can't know what you are interested in.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Does it really work on all systems ?

On Linux? Yes, bringing this to Windows makes no sense. Completely different OS with a different core tooling etc, and this is a silly thing to ask in this comparison anyway. SnoopDOS isn't exactly portable :') But at least Linux is so pervasive and portable itself that for me the answer definitely *is* 'yes, runs everywhere' :-)








.... But this line of debate is silly, first there's the assertion equivalent tools don't exist, because you don't know them, when told they do you set some new goal posts derived from not understanding a modern system and now we'll have a new round of you demanding proofs of publicly documented tooling that anyone can read, try and use.

[Locutus]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Standardised system of command line parsing. Eg readargs never seen this anywhere else and it's great that every command that uses it you can just pass a ? to get the template.

Genius

I think this the only one in this thread that i actually really agree with, this would have allowed for an even nicer CLI UX not just because of more consistent implementations of command interfaces but also as the OS can put out dictates on how parsing works one could enforce schema's on it and potentially expose those to other tooling.

This would then allow much more simple ways of for example tab-completion of command arguments or in-shell syntax highlighting and structural editing.


Some other operating systems did this too (such as OpenVMS, released the same year as TRIPOS), but they never really made use of it to improve user experience.


I actually wonder who did this first.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Locutus

Filtering is a thing, there's arguments on the tools themselves, egrep, multitail, etc. You need to know how to use your tool, and the tool can't know what you are interested in.

Windows system monitors can filter too, but it doesn't help. You either get flooded or miss important events (usually both).

Originally Posted by Locutus

On Linux? Yes, bringing this to Windows makes no sense. Completely different OS with a different core tooling etc, and this is a silly thing to ask in this comparison anyway. SnoopDOS isn't exactly portable :') But at least Linux is so pervasive and portable itself that for me the answer definitely *is* 'yes, runs everywhere' :-)

I'm not using linux. So perhaps it has a few things in my list, but that's not a reason to argue.

Originally Posted by Locutus

.... But this line of debate is silly, first there's the assertion equivalent tools don't exist, because you don't know them, when told they do you set some new goal posts derived from not understanding a modern system and now we'll have a new round of you demanding proofs of publicly documented tooling that anyone can read, try and use.

Read post #30 again. I didn't say the tools didn't exist regardless of the platform. Nor did i pretend to have any linux experience, for which the 'documented' is usually TL;DR for me.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by van_dammesque

Nods to snoopdos, snapshot, assigns, I'd add KingCon, couldn't you tab and get files in the dir to autocomplete? Latest win terminal you can't even drag n drop like in the old CMD prompt!

the simplicity and integration of kingcon is something I am yet to find elsewhere

[Dan]

About the ram disk on windows, you can do it with https://sourceforge.net/projects/imdisk-toolkit/

or with: https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/det..._ram_disk.html (may be limited to 4gb ram disk as it is a bit older version. the newer versions aren't freeware)

[DisasterIncarna]

Originally Posted by Dan

About the ram disk on windows, you can do it with https://sourceforge.net/projects/imdisk-toolkit/

or with: https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/det..._ram_disk.html (may be limited to 4gb ram disk as it is a bit older version. the newer versions aren't freeware)

imdisk was pretty decent, i used to use it quite some time ago, i believe its dynamic mode enlarged as needed when you added files to ramdisk but it did not free memory when you deleted stuff, no idea if its the same now.

[Locutus]

Originally Posted by pixie

the simplicity and integration of kingcon is something I am yet to find elsewhere

For things like super nice file path navigation/completion, try Fish shell, ofcourse no UI that pops up, but the navigator it uses for file/directory completion is brilliant. ....That and all the other excellent ergonomics it does.


Drag-and-drop icons to terminals, I don't know who does that. Konsole or such? I don't use a desktop environment so dunno

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Dan

About the ram disk on windows, you can do it with https://sourceforge.net/projects/imdisk-toolkit/

This is the one i am using. All data on it persist after shutdown (and i won't turn hibernate off because this is too slow).

[paul1981]

Originally Posted by Thorham

It's 'their', not 'there'

Mine was a simple mistake...not sabotage.