Monkey Island 2 (hd-installed) - problem

MheAd · 22 June 2003, 14:08

Hello!
I'm having a problem running Monkey Island 2 on WinUAE.
I was trying to install it on my virtual hard drive, but it won't work.

I've set up my WinUAE (latest release) to act like more or less an Amiga500+ with hard drive (KS/WB 2.04). The game will boot from floppy on this config but it won't run within WB. I can install it on HD though, but when I try to run it from hard disk, it's basically the same thing just like when I try to run it from floppy within WB. It simply instantly crashes.

It must be something either with the emulator settings, or maybe I've got myself a bad version of the game. I've tried several sources, both adf-files (to make a clean installation) and even pre-installed hdf images. Everything failed at the same point. Monkey Island 1 HD-version runs on the other had PERFECTLY with my configuration.

I used to have an Amiga 500+ with hard drive and I know I was able to run the game without any problems.

Note! This game is not WHLoad / JST modified to run on 3.x system. This is the "clean" version.

Some of you will probably suggest that I should get myself WHLoad or JST -version of the game anyway, but you see, those versions are full of bugs, and I'm also positively sure that my problem can be solved on some other way, as this game, as I mentioned before, IS compatible with kickstart/wbench
versions higher then 1.2/1.3 !

Thanks in advance!

haynor666 · 22 June 2003, 19:30

As I said many times. WHDLoad install will solve Your problems. Download install and whdload package from www.whdload.de and original game from
http://amigaheaven.playweb.de/caps/0...keyIsland2.zip. Install package then use game install with this images. Remember to enter www.caps-project.org and download CAPS library and put it in the same folder with WinUAE.

MheAd · 22 June 2003, 21:45

Thanks, but I would perfer if someone could show me if I missed an option in my WinUAE config.

I don't want to envolve into this WHDLoad thing as Monkey Island 2 is designed to run normally on any 1.x / 2.x OS.

That's why I'm sending my WinUAE config file as an attachment, so you can check it out if I missed something.

MheAd · 22 June 2003, 23:58

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
I GOT IT WORKING!

Just as I expected - it wasn't badly configured WinUAE that was the problem! The problem was, just as I was suspecting - badly cracked version of the game that I had!

Now when you directed me to the link with original Monkey Island 2 images, installation went well and the game started as normal. And guess what - Just as I claimed. WHDLoad does NOT need to be installed for Monkey Island 2 if you run emulator with OS 2.0 / 2.04 !

I simply installed images as usual and everything went well !!!

Since I still happend to have original Monkey Island 2 disks and manuals I don't need to print that protection code table which is provided with original images on the web site

This is actually the first time I heard about this CAPS-project which is sharing original disk dumps. An interesting thing. I'll definitely have a look on their web site if I face another badly cracked game!

Thanks alot for the link man!

Drake1009 · 23 June 2003, 00:18

As far as I understand the CAPS images aren't to be distributed once they are cleaned. The contributers get a version of the game they contributed with and it's up to them if they want to distribute their version or not. Don't expect to find the images themselves on the CAPS homepage.

OR have I misunderstood something?

MheAd · 23 June 2003, 00:52

It doesn't matter really.
What's important right here, right now is that I got a proper working copy Monkey Island 2 and that it CAN be installed without god damn WHDLoad

IFW · 23 June 2003, 01:13

You won't find ipf files (caps images) on our site, unless we own the copyright to the content, or got permission to distribute the images.
Since MheAd owns the real thing it is just fine he could finally got hold on them.

Don't forget to thank all the people involved with dumping and scanning the game - those I'd only post if they really want it

www.caps-project.org

MheAd · 23 June 2003, 12:44

Well I tought I made myself clear already? THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU guys !!!!

I have a question though.
This *.ipf file format you guys are using, what's the deal with that? Why don't you use usual *.adf format?
And why is an *.ipf image 1026kb big?
I mean, one Amiga floppy disk or *.adf image is 880kb.

fiath · 23 June 2003, 13:05

Because the ADF format cannot represent disks with custom formats and/or copy protection.

They are (sometimes) bigger because IPF files are not just Amiga formatted disk data such as ADF - they hold data, disk format info, density info, etc. Basically they can describe any disk - not just Amiga ones.

Basically they describe not just the data, but how it is physically layed out on the disk surface.

Some IPF's are only 400Kb though - it just depends on how many tracks on the disk are actually used (are not noise/unformatted), besides other things...

MheAd · 23 June 2003, 13:36

So basically an IPF file is something like CD ISO ?

IFW · 23 June 2003, 13:52

Sort of, but not exactly, since data can describe something completely different, not just disk data and the format is not preset.
It is basically a wrapper format containing disk and rom images so far.
Disk images hold their data described track by track.
Each track has its geometry described, bitcell density described etc, how the data is built. Then follows the data in a self-describing format that allows it to be re-generated in a very similar way to how a duplicator machine would do it.
Things like put 3 gaps here with value x, put n bytes of data there using the following table of values, insert marks here, etc.
Simple, but very effective.
There are no preset formats stored: anything can and do change based on the disk format the program uses.
Some games use 3-4 completely different formats on the very same disk.
The encoder (part of an analyser program) generates the ipf file and puts all the data that is needed to generate the raw track data without knowing anything about the format; the decoder (the library you download) can re-generate the original data encoded from an ipf file.

Drake1009 · 23 June 2003, 14:37

Sort of like how CloneCD does it then? Reading bit by bit copying read errors and making sure to get the identical layout on the target CD? Whereas ISO files read all the data and sometimes are asked to lay it out in a specific way but doesn't always?

IFW · 23 June 2003, 15:52

Sorry no idea what CloneCD does, but maybe.
However with CDs you have one generic format (aside from cd+g etc) and variants of that format and its encoding can be used to protect a cd.
On (original) Amiga games there are hundreds of formats being used. You must know what you are reading in order to verify that what you read does not have errors. That's why analysation is needed. Each format is described with a script/descriptor, that the analyser tries to match against the track format, then picks the best match. Obviously these scripts contain information on how to verify the data, calculate different checksums etc. Once the format is found the relevant data is abstracted into the "language" used in ipf files, and produces the ipf file.
It's pretty much described on our older wip pages.
Original duplication worked the very same: they had a master disk read according to the trace script (similar to our scripts), then the data was written to disk according to the instructions contained in the scripts.
While real duplication generated the data directly onto the disks, ipf preservation stores the data needed for magnetic recording/emulation in the ipf file. That means the data stored is not "raw" data: that is generated on the fly by the decoder library.

22 June 2003, 14:08	#1
MheAd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 59	Monkey Island 2 (hd-installed) - problem Hello! I'm having a problem running Monkey Island 2 on WinUAE. I was trying to install it on my virtual hard drive, but it won't work. I've set up my WinUAE (latest release) to act like more or less an Amiga500+ with hard drive (KS/WB 2.04). The game will boot from floppy on this config but it won't run within WB. I can install it on HD though, but when I try to run it from hard disk, it's basically the same thing just like when I try to run it from floppy within WB. It simply instantly crashes. It must be something either with the emulator settings, or maybe I've got myself a bad version of the game. I've tried several sources, both adf-files (to make a clean installation) and even pre-installed hdf images. Everything failed at the same point. Monkey Island 1 HD-version runs on the other had PERFECTLY with my configuration. I used to have an Amiga 500+ with hard drive and I know I was able to run the game without any problems. Note! This game is not WHLoad / JST modified to run on 3.x system. This is the "clean" version. Some of you will probably suggest that I should get myself WHLoad or JST -version of the game anyway, but you see, those versions are full of bugs, and I'm also positively sure that my problem can be solved on some other way, as this game, as I mentioned before, IS compatible with kickstart/wbench versions higher then 1.2/1.3 ! Thanks in advance!

23 June 2003, 13:52	#11
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Sort of, but not exactly, since data can describe something completely different, not just disk data and the format is not preset. It is basically a wrapper format containing disk and rom images so far. Disk images hold their data described track by track. Each track has its geometry described, bitcell density described etc, how the data is built. Then follows the data in a self-describing format that allows it to be re-generated in a very similar way to how a duplicator machine would do it. Things like put 3 gaps here with value x, put n bytes of data there using the following table of values, insert marks here, etc. Simple, but very effective. There are no preset formats stored: anything can and do change based on the disk format the program uses. Some games use 3-4 completely different formats on the very same disk. The encoder (part of an analyser program) generates the ipf file and puts all the data that is needed to generate the raw track data without knowing anything about the format; the decoder (the library you download) can re-generate the original data encoded from an ipf file. Last edited by IFW; 23 June 2003 at 15:52.

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22 June 2003, 19:30	#2
haynor666 retro maniac Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tarnobrzeg/Poland Age: 45 Posts: 1,748	As I said many times. WHDLoad install will solve Your problems. Download install and whdload package from www.whdload.de and original game from http://amigaheaven.playweb.de/caps/0...keyIsland2.zip. Install package then use game install with this images. Remember to enter www.caps-project.org and download CAPS library and put it in the same folder with WinUAE.

22 June 2003, 23:58	#4
MheAd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 59	YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! I GOT IT WORKING! Just as I expected - it wasn't badly configured WinUAE that was the problem! The problem was, just as I was suspecting - badly cracked version of the game that I had! Now when you directed me to the link with original Monkey Island 2 images, installation went well and the game started as normal. And guess what - Just as I claimed. WHDLoad does NOT need to be installed for Monkey Island 2 if you run emulator with OS 2.0 / 2.04 ! I simply installed images as usual and everything went well !!! Since I still happend to have original Monkey Island 2 disks and manuals I don't need to print that protection code table which is provided with original images on the web site This is actually the first time I heard about this CAPS-project which is sharing original disk dumps. An interesting thing. I'll definitely have a look on their web site if I face another badly cracked game! Thanks alot for the link man!

23 June 2003, 00:18	#5
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	As far as I understand the CAPS images aren't to be distributed once they are cleaned. The contributers get a version of the game they contributed with and it's up to them if they want to distribute their version or not. Don't expect to find the images themselves on the CAPS homepage. OR have I misunderstood something?

23 June 2003, 00:52	#6
MheAd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 59	It doesn't matter really. What's important right here, right now is that I got a proper working copy Monkey Island 2 and that it CAN be installed without god damn WHDLoad

23 June 2003, 01:13	#7
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	You won't find ipf files (caps images) on our site, unless we own the copyright to the content, or got permission to distribute the images. Since MheAd owns the real thing it is just fine he could finally got hold on them. Don't forget to thank all the people involved with dumping and scanning the game - those I'd only post if they really want it www.caps-project.org

23 June 2003, 12:44	#8
MheAd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 59	Well I tought I made myself clear already? THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU guys !!!! I have a question though. This .ipf file format you guys are using, what's the deal with that? Why don't you use usual .adf format? And why is an .ipf image 1026kb big? I mean, one Amiga floppy disk or .adf image is 880kb.

23 June 2003, 13:05	#9
fiath Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South East / UK Age: 46 Posts: 1,930	Because the ADF format cannot represent disks with custom formats and/or copy protection. They are (sometimes) bigger because IPF files are not just Amiga formatted disk data such as ADF - they hold data, disk format info, density info, etc. Basically they can describe any disk - not just Amiga ones. Basically they describe not just the data, but how it is physically layed out on the disk surface. Some IPF's are only 400Kb though - it just depends on how many tracks on the disk are actually used (are not noise/unformatted), besides other things...

23 June 2003, 13:36	#10
MheAd Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 59	So basically an IPF file is something like CD ISO ?

23 June 2003, 14:37	#12
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	Sort of like how CloneCD does it then? Reading bit by bit copying read errors and making sure to get the identical layout on the target CD? Whereas ISO files read all the data and sometimes are asked to lay it out in a specific way but doesn't always?

23 June 2003, 15:52	#13
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Sorry no idea what CloneCD does, but maybe. However with CDs you have one generic format (aside from cd+g etc) and variants of that format and its encoding can be used to protect a cd. On (original) Amiga games there are hundreds of formats being used. You must know what you are reading in order to verify that what you read does not have errors. That's why analysation is needed. Each format is described with a script/descriptor, that the analyser tries to match against the track format, then picks the best match. Obviously these scripts contain information on how to verify the data, calculate different checksums etc. Once the format is found the relevant data is abstracted into the "language" used in ipf files, and produces the ipf file. It's pretty much described on our older wip pages. Original duplication worked the very same: they had a master disk read according to the trace script (similar to our scripts), then the data was written to disk according to the instructions contained in the scripts. While real duplication generated the data directly onto the disks, ipf preservation stores the data needed for magnetic recording/emulation in the ipf file. That means the data stored is not "raw" data: that is generated on the fly by the decoder library.

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