14 September 2012, 18:59 | #21 | ||
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I was refering to the level of obfuscated code in the boot routines is utterly undone once it loads the intro code from $1000 to $37xxx, once thats loaded there is no more obfuscated code to deal with, that code can be grabbed quite easily and doesn't rely on anything that the boot routines setup, unlike later Christian Weber protections that leave markers and bits set that would be missed by a reset cracker. [wink] Quote:
If its your contention that the crackers of the day couldn't do it, I counter that clearly that can't be the case when Rob/Quartex was plenty capable of it, but didn't. That is what i'm alluding to mate. Are your perchance the exact same 'fil' that exploded really 'eloquently' 10 years ago? I refer to here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...hlight=fil+mum Stingray doesn't need my help, and I don't need his help, Stingray is perfectly capable of doing Eliminator Last edited by Graham Humphrey; 14 September 2012 at 19:43. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged |
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14 September 2012, 19:07 | #22 |
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So, what i have read, the game is not cracked in 5 minutes, to run on a plain A500?
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14 September 2012, 19:09 | #23 |
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Well, technically the game can literally be cracked in 5 minutes if you ignore the intro sequence and the Eliminator title picture, but to include the intro as well does take a lot more time because of the way its coded.
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15 September 2012, 14:42 | #24 | |
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Intro uses a level 1 interrupt to load its data on the fly, main game doesn't. Now, why do you think the game was released without intro? I know what Rob/Qtx was capable of, thanks! But that is not the topic here. And I have no idea what makes you believe that I think the crackers back in the day couldn't do it. You, of all people, should know that any and all protections can be defeated. This game is not different. Fact is, it was released without the intro part back and there were reasons for that. And as said, you have your opinion and I have mine. Yours can be wrong, mine too. And that's all I have to say about this matter. |
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15 September 2012, 15:17 | #25 | |
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15 September 2012, 17:01 | #26 | ||||
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We have a difference of opinion mate, the kind of stuff thats ripe for discussion |
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15 September 2012, 23:04 | #27 |
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Gentlemen, PLEASE!!!!
Now, lets just give the great Rob/QTX a big hand and not tear strips out of each other |
16 September 2012, 15:50 | #28 | |||||
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16 September 2012, 18:10 | #29 | ||||||||
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Mate, its a fact, that if a game could be single filed back in the late 1980's, it would be single filed, but not necessarily by the original cracker.
Countless early Quartex releases by Rob were done with everything intact, and then it would be single filed by someone else and stuck on a compact, not always crediting Quartex for the release either. And because the modem scene wasn't anywhere near as widespread as it was later in the Amigas life, most people would see the single file version, and not the full version with intro. Quote:
if its your contention that the crackers responsible for Eliminator couldn't do it, I might agree with you, but you've yet to actually state it. Saying it has a on the fly loader doesn't tell me WHY you think it wasn't done. Quote:
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It is a fact that they didn't release all of Eliminator in its entirety, theres no debate about that, the only debate is WHY they didn't. Either they couldn't do it, couldn't be bothered to do it, or as I suggested couldn't be fucked to go through all the trouble of releasing it with the intro, just for some dick to single file it, rendering all their hard work utterly null and void, because thats exactly what would have happened. Christ, theres idiots removing title music from a release just so that they can make it a 1 disk release instead of 2, thats how far some people are prepared to get go. Quote:
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If you had actually stated WHY you thought it a problem (i.e. cracker couldn't do it, couldn't be bothered etc), that would have been a reason, but 'level 1 loader' on its own just makes me say "and?" Quote:
"And you have provided no compelling reason to counter the single file claim, because this game if it retained all parts is well over 600K, and I state right here and now, that had all parts of the game been retained, it WOULD have been single filed by someone, undoing all the work of the original cracker." Quote:
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Let me be clear mate, we are NOT having an argument here, as far as i'm concerned we're having a discussion that we happen to disagree on certain elements, which frankly, I don't have an issue with. If all the discussions were all back slapping agreement on everything, christ it would be one boring place. EDIT: And the reason for me responding, is I don't think either of us have presented our opinions clearly enough before, or we wouldn't still be debating I think! Peace Last edited by Galahad/FLT; 16 September 2012 at 19:13. |
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16 September 2012, 21:48 | #30 | |
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I am back on EAB since a few days, i just discovered this nice thread. @fil : I upload a hack of double dragon 2 based on the Oracle crack that is perfectly working on an ECS machine. |
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16 September 2012, 22:05 | #31 |
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At the time, there was 1 or 2 Amiga games being released everyday. Perhaps the cracker looked at the game and thought it could be quickly cracked without an intro, or try and crack it properly but risk being beaten by another group.
So a quick crack was made with the intro removed with a possible intention of releasing the full game a bit later. But then nobody got around to it after every other group did the same thing. And thus, the intro remained missing. I personally doubt the single-file thing is correct, as if the full version with intro was released at the time, then that one would have been spread well before Defjam and those other butchers stripped the intro off the game. And if you had the full version and then a single file version without the intro was released, would you really bother to delete the full version and accept the inferior release? |
16 September 2012, 22:16 | #32 |
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16 September 2012, 22:50 | #33 | |
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Consider Stunt Car Racer, thats a 1989 game, very few people would have gotten the full Quartex release with the titlepic in the UK. Quartex would have released the full version, it would have been downloaded, and someone realised that it could be single filed, and then put onto a compact with other games and spread by mail to people. In fact I doubt very many people who copied their games back then in the UK would have seen any other version but a single file compact version of Stunt Car Racer, same as Switchblade, 3D Pool, and all those other same era games. Plus floppy disks were quite a bit more expensive then as well. And about Defjam, most of their releases were their own releases, they didn't single file lots of other groups cracks. |
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16 September 2012, 23:00 | #34 |
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Funnily enough in New Zealand, the only version spread was the Quartex version. I still remember seeing "Cracked by Quartex" bit of text on the "Steer track" screen. Because of our distance away from the scene, I bet the first version released was modem traded into NZ and then a lot of school-yard disk copying spread that version around. I would think Australia would be similar.
Il Scuro/Defjam seemed to repack quite a few other groups games into a single file as quite a few have "original cracked by xxx" in the (ugly) text intro/trainer menus. |
16 September 2012, 23:46 | #35 |
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Ahahahahaha mai what did he do again ?! Well off topic, maybe he must grow just "a little more" lol.
Btw guys, this makes me think : is there already on the forum an kind of "official" thread called "games that have to be better cracked" ? If not it would be nice to centralize an exhaustive list with the reasons for each games. Eliminator so, the plague PAL, killing game show PAL, menace, jurassic park,... |
16 September 2012, 23:47 | #36 | ||
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Compacts started to dissapear as the games got bigger and modem trading got more and more quicker and more widespread. Releases with "imported by" intros on them stopped as the people responsible for cracking them originally were so well spread, there was no need for specific importing groups, because modems were no longer for the elite. You're right on Defjam, well specificall Il Scuro, yes he did refile a lot of cracks, but most of the stuff I got was done by Slipstream, Inner City and Mayhem as we were in the UK. But that goes to prove my point, that many games that were cracked with everything intact, were then single filed by others for compacts very quickly, so that very few people got to see the original crack as it was by the original group. Quote:
Last edited by prowler; 16 September 2012 at 23:58. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged. |
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16 September 2012, 23:57 | #37 |
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If my memory is good (but it is a long time ago, i left the forum a big while), the cracked version of menace in the TOSEC set lacks something at the beginning, i don't remember what exactly (a stuff like the intro image, or something like this).
Musashi sent me a really quick done and temporary new crack of it with the stuff missing at the beginning but it failed when i tested it for him. I really don't remember what was missing exactly comparing the cracked versions in the TOSEC, but i remember that he talked to me about something else too. Your dialog about Eliminator suddendly reminded me this. Have to load the two disks on my A500 to check, but it is off topic here. Is there a such thread on the forum ? If not, do you think that it would be a good idea to create one maybe ? Last edited by Vollldo; 17 September 2012 at 00:11. |
17 September 2012, 08:48 | #38 | ||
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17 September 2012, 09:33 | #39 |
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Oh yes i remember now StingRay, indeed the hiscore loading/saving wasn't implemented. There was another thing too, i clearly remember that his version had something that was lacking in the avaible cracked ones, i am practically sure that it was the intro, the title image, etc...
Adding a trainer would be a good idea indeed (for eliminator too !), the too games are far to be easy ! Also to fix it for the 68x0 is always a positive thing . And yes eh eh, it seems that you have some material to spend a nice winter ! . I am your guest to test disks as always, more over i never launched the IPF version of eliminator, i will discover it with the cracked version. Nice feeling inside, it reminds us when we were putting into the drive something totally new, eyes and hears ready to be "woooow" . |
17 September 2012, 10:10 | #40 |
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My 2 old cents about it:
I can't remember about the game itself, but even in the beginning of amiga scene speed was always an important factor. We had a lot of very good and fast crackers and suppliers in germany, so you could always confide on that somebody else was cracking the game at the same time as you were doing. So being the first who sent out the game by express sendings to the major groups won the race. Even modem trading was already working for the major teams, even baud speed was like playing bongos: one disk took around 9 hours if i remember right Could Rob or any cracker do it ? No doubt here, but why should they bother about an intro and maybe losing the whole race ? And maybe it was not the only game he had to crack on that day... And remember a package of 10 disks costs around 25 euros back in the days, so you would always chose the 1-disk version vs. 2-disk version -= E.vil N.ever D.ies =- |
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