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Old 02 July 2004, 15:01   #1
Leo42
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Arrow Isn't it time to release Amiga ROM 1.3 for FREE ?

Hello,

.UAE is available for FREE (and has been ported to a number of different platforms thanks to its GPL licence)

.A lot of great games are available for FREE thanks to their original authors/editors (see http://www.back2roots.org)

=> The Rom 1.3/WB 1.3 has been released 16 (!) years ago: I think it's high time to release it for FREE... Apple already released MacOS 7.x for free (not the roms though), Amstrad CPC's basic has also been put in public domain,...

What do you think ?
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Old 02 July 2004, 15:09   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo42
Hello,

.UAE is available for FREE (and has been ported to a number of different platforms thanks to its GPL licence)

.A lot of great games are available for FREE thanks to their original authors/editors (see http://www.back2roots.org)

=> The Rom 1.3/WB 1.3 has been released 16 (!) years ago: I think it's high time to release it for FREE... Apple already released MacOS 7.x for free (not the roms though), Amstrad CPC's basic has also been put in public domain,...

What do you think ?
If it's still alot of demand for it... then why should they realese it for free? I mean UAE, Fellow and other emus have made it popular again so I don't see any reason why one should realese kick 1.3 and WB for free when they still can make money of it.
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Old 02 July 2004, 15:13   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KombatSanta
If it's still alot of demand for it... then why should they realese it for free? I mean UAE, Fellow and other emus have made it popular again so I don't see any reason why one should realese kick 1.3 and WB for free when they still can make money of it.
I find it unfair to demand money for a 16 years old OS... as only nostalgic people use it to play old games: no one is using this OS to do serious/professional work... Why nostalgic people only wanting to revive their early years would have to pay for that ? Especially when all other components (ie.: emulator + a lof of games) are free...

Plus: why did Amiga, Inc. sell the AmigaOS to KMOS, Inc. in latest April if they still could make money with it ?
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Old 02 July 2004, 16:22   #4
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On the last question, turn it around. Why would KMOS, Inc. buy the AmigaOS from Amiga, Inc. if they could not make money with it? Whether one agrees or disagrees about whether something should be free is irrelevant. Businesses exist primarily to make a profit, and not to be "fair" in our eyes. If you owned stock in a company, you probably would think they were nuts if they gave away something they could have sold which might help to increase the value of your shares.
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Old 02 July 2004, 16:37   #5
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It is funny how people demand something be released for free since it has no value to them yet they want it anyway. If it realy had no value why would you want it in the first place?

I think ebay among other places has show that you can make a profit on anything if its sold at the right price.
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Old 02 July 2004, 16:55   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_K
It is funny how people demand something be released for free since it has no value to them yet they want it anyway. If it realy had no value why would you want it in the first place?

I think ebay among other places has show that you can make a profit on anything if its sold at the right price.
I ask for anything for ME: I already got Amigas where I can dump needed ROM... But seriously: who did buy AmigaForever just to play Amiga 500 games ? I don't think they make that much money with 1.3 roms especially with Internet and peer to peer... But maybe I'm wrong: maybe there're making thousand of dollars and that would be stupid to release it for free... Yes... Maybe Apple would still find customers to buy MacOS 7.x now that MacOSX has been released, yes...

@Chuckles: KMos bought AmigaOS in order to let Hyperion developp AmigaOS4: with Amiga sources belonging to Amiga, Inc. OS4 development may have been stopped because of Genesi sueing Amiga, Inc...
Please don't tell me they have interest in OS 1.x !
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Old 02 July 2004, 17:12   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo42
I ask for anything for ME: I already got Amigas where I can dump needed ROM... But seriously: who did buy AmigaForever just to play Amiga 500 games ? I don't think they make that much money with 1.3 roms especially with Internet and peer to peer... But maybe I'm wrong: maybe there're making thousand of dollars and that would be stupid to release it for free... Yes... Maybe Apple would still find customers to buy MacOS 7.x now that MacOSX has been released, yes...

@Chuckles: KMos bought AmigaOS in order to let Hyperion developp AmigaOS4: with Amiga sources belonging to Amiga, Inc. OS4 development may have been stopped because of Genesi sueing Amiga, Inc...
Please don't tell me they have interest in OS 1.x !
I am sure alot of people purchased Amiga Forever to play their old favorite games on the PC using the emulator. Not everybody has the spare room for the real machines like I do, or wants to fix/replace old dying hardware. I have a copy just for amiga explorer since its easy to dump images back to disk on my A1200 using the PCMCIA network adapter.

I have OS 1.3 on my A500 and A2000 just for playing games.

People DO buy mac OS 7.x cdrom for their old mac collections (they are only a few dollars anyway and not everybody has a fast internet connection to d/l the free disk images). You can't run OSX on your Quadra 950/840AV you know.

I find it odd people spend $300 or more for a video card for their A2000 or A4000 machines or go to the trouble of getting PPC upgrades for their machines, but others think its a good investment.

While anything software related to the Amiga line can be found on the net for free (legal or not), it does take time and some effort to find these resources. Therefore people who would rather just sit down and fire up a commercial emulator with 1.3 roms included (along with a few games) will pay a few dollars for a legit product.
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Old 02 July 2004, 17:25   #8
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What do you think would be the likelyhood of an Amiga-in-a-Joystick thing like they did with the Atari 2600, Namco and now C64?

I see that they are doing a Megadrive joystick with 6 games built in for 30 but I cannot understand why (apart from its a big con) no cartridge port for further games for that one!
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Old 02 July 2004, 19:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo42
@Chuckles: KMos bought AmigaOS in order to let Hyperion developp AmigaOS4: with Amiga sources belonging to Amiga, Inc. OS4 development may have been stopped because of Genesi sueing Amiga, Inc...
Please don't tell me they have interest in OS 1.x !
Actually, I can't tell you anything with regard to what they may or may not have interest in. However if (for example) they want to provide support for a means of running classic Amiga software under OS4, then that may be a reason for not freely releasing OS1.x, whereupon it could be legally used by anyone else who wanted to do the same thing on a different platform. Also, if anyone did want to develop an Amiga in a joystick sort of device such as the one Big-Byte asked about, they'd have to either buy or license the rights to the OS from KMos. Things generally tend to become free only when companies can no longer think of any way to make money with them, and KMos may not have reached that point yet. Why not ask them?
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Old 04 July 2004, 20:33   #10
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Though I agree there's demand for the software, I doubt they are able to make much money off it these days. That there is demand for something doesn't mean it's something that's going to sell.

I think releasing kick 1.3 would generate a lot of goodwill and in that way be a sensible business decision.
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Old 04 July 2004, 22:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolorabi
Though I agree there's demand for the software, I doubt they are able to make much money off it these days. That there is demand for something doesn't mean it's something that's going to sell.

I think releasing kick 1.3 would generate a lot of goodwill and in that way be a sensible business decision.
Why would releasing kick 1.3 generate any goodwill? People with real Amigas dont need it, people with emulators would use it to cut into the emulator products the owner is trying to sell. Its a stupid buisines deal to give away something your currently selling or something that could compete with what your selling or plan to sell.

An example of goodwill is apple releasing GS/OS 6.01 for the IIgs and 7.5.3-7.5.5 for the 68k and powermac line. The reason for this is Apple has not made or supported the apple II line in ages and has no plans on reviving it any time soon. Apple didn't release 7.6.1 or later OS because they are just modern enough to get a Mac functioning on the internet and could possible undercut new mac sales.

Microsoft releasing Windows 3.11 code would be goodwill (they have not done this) for all the ancient machines out there. This is a good buisiness decision because the OS is old enough that it wont run any current aplications. Releasing OS 9x would not be smart because it is still viable in the market.
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Old 05 July 2004, 00:06   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_K
Why would releasing kick 1.3 generate any goodwill? People with real Amigas dont need it, people with emulators would use it to cut into the emulator products the owner is trying to sell. Its a stupid buisines deal to give away something your currently selling or something that could compete with what your selling or plan to sell.
Think Spectrum ROMs. Would the Spectrum have so many emulators, and such a vibrant emulation scene, if Amstrad hadn't made the ROMs freely distributable?

More importantly, would the Amiga have such a vibrant emulation scene had someone not dumped and distributed the Amiga Kickstart ROMs illegally in the first place? Amiga Forever is based on WinUAE, which is based on UAE, and it's possible that not everyone who contributed to UAE before Amiga Forever was released had dumped their own ROMs.

I agree that whoever owns the Kickstarts this week doesn't need to allow the free distribution of the early ROMs; it's their property, at least until the next chump buys it, and they can do what they like with it. However, I do think that freeing Kick 1.3 would create goodwill within the emulation community; would increase interest in Amiga emulation; and might even lead to new emulator developments.
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Old 05 July 2004, 00:23   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant512
Think Spectrum ROMs. Would the Spectrum have so many emulators, and such a vibrant emulation scene, if Amstrad hadn't made the ROMs freely distributable?

More importantly, would the Amiga have such a vibrant emulation scene had someone not dumped and distributed the Amiga Kickstart ROMs illegally in the first place? Amiga Forever is based on WinUAE, which is based on UAE, and it's possible that not everyone who contributed to UAE before Amiga Forever was released had dumped their own ROMs.

I agree that whoever owns the Kickstarts this week doesn't need to allow the free distribution of the early ROMs; it's their property, at least until the next chump buys it, and they can do what they like with it. However, I do think that freeing Kick 1.3 would create goodwill within the emulation community; would increase interest in Amiga emulation; and might even lead to new emulator developments.
So whats your point, that both the Amiga and Spectrum scenes have a vibrant EMU scene no matter if the roms are free or not?

The EMU scene is vibrant because its all for free (emulator and all the games legal or not). There is always a vibrant scene for free computer software wether its for a spectrum 8 bit machine or the latest PC and Mac warez. Goodwill doesnt exist between a company that owns the rights to amiga roms and the thousands who illegaly use them already.
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Old 05 July 2004, 00:51   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckles
Actually, I can't tell you anything with regard to what they may or may not have interest in. However if (for example) they want to provide support for a means of running classic Amiga software under OS4, then that may be a reason for not freely releasing OS1.x, whereupon it could be legally used by anyone else who wanted to do the same thing on a different platform. Also, if anyone did want to develop an Amiga in a joystick sort of device such as the one Big-Byte asked about, they'd have to either buy or license the rights to the OS from KMos. Things generally tend to become free only when companies can no longer think of any way to make money with them, and KMos may not have reached that point yet. Why not ask them?
They may release it for free under a special licence: say "For not commercial use only"... So they could still sell licence for that Joystick stuff or anything else...

What has the release of OS4 to do with the free (or not) release of OS 1.x ?
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Old 05 July 2004, 01:55   #15
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I beg to GOD that they don't make oine of those stupid fucking joysticks out of Amiga games.
Besides, it would be too complex to replicate, I suppose.
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Old 05 July 2004, 02:38   #16
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why do you want Amiga to release the kickstart rom for free... ?

i mean whats the point... i doubt anyone that is into the emulation scene can say that all of the roms that sit on their hard-drive are transfered personally

if you are into emulation (which, lets not forget is kinda underground... but now very popular), then you probably don't care are the legal arguements concerning copyright etc...

!!! No i not dragging up a right/wrong piracy debate, something we have seen here a gazillion times already !!!

i personally don't care if AmigaInc or whoever don't want to release something they own into the public domain... it makes no difference to me what-so-ever...

anyway.. i must get back to one of the 500 sega megadrive games sitting on my hard-drive...
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Old 05 July 2004, 02:39   #17
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oh.. yeah....

concerning AmigaInc, do they actual make any money anymore anyway.. lol
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Old 05 July 2004, 17:18   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_K
Why would releasing kick 1.3 generate any goodwill? People with real Amigas dont need it, people with emulators would use it to cut into the emulator products the owner is trying to sell.
Because they're releasing a new computer and a new OS, and there's not enough Amiga owners right now to make this a success unless they can persuade some ex-Amiga owners to buy it too.
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Old 05 July 2004, 17:27   #19
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Why would a free 1.3 kickstart make me buy a completely different product, AmigaOne+Os4 or at least change my attitude towards it? It would generate goodwill but generating goodwill isn't a sufficient way to advertise a product, especially if the product is publicly known as ...hmm sucky
 
Old 05 July 2004, 17:57   #20
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Well, I am sure they could make a good PR campaign out of releasing Kick 1.3 - I was shocked that mainstream press covered Amiga DE, OS4, etc. as it was, so there must be interest in that kind of news.

"Amiga helps people play old games" or something...

Okay, maybe it wouldn't work, especially with that headline - but I am sure Amstrad's decision to release Speccy + Amstrad CPC ROMs was quite big news a while ago...

Anyway, I don't suppose it will ever happen, and I wouldn't do it if I was them - especially since they probably have some sort of long term contract with Cloanto. And... well... I am not sure they really have any other revenue streams right now, even if it is only a little money (and I expect it is quite a nice amount).
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