RapidRoad USB starts shipping oct-20-2014

[Vlad]

Jens, it is not about complaining but rather finding others with similar problems. Remember first ACA 1230/56 overheating? The whole troubleshooting was done right here at eab, in nothing other but the news section (my account got deleted somehow though, same nick). Or the turbo chameleon 64 on Yahoo groups where you actually expressed your gratitude for detailed reports (I did solder that capacitor myself ) .

Btw - I'm on a replacement RapidRoad already, so I doubt the fault is in this actual module. It would be nice to know what hardware have those that got it to work, what set patch version etc. It is a hobby, I believe for you also, so setting up 'official' support forum for your products would really be very helpful, and most likely reduce your own workload.

[basshead]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Wrong place to complain - contact your reseller or me if you have bought directly. That's where you get support.

This is a news forum, not intended for support.

I know I'm not the only one "complaining" and I'm not primarily here for support, and it appears I've already exhausted all options from the retailer's perspective, and will be proceeding with refunds (unfortunately the first one returned appears to have been lost in transit). The news to share on this forum is that these devices don't work on every system, and to warn others of this fact (and prevent them making the same mistakes as some of us already have) as this information is not available on the retailer's websites or wiki pages.

I understand there's plenty of different Amiga configurations out there, and possibly no two are alike, but I strongly believe as much information as possible needs to be shared that may affect a person's decision in purchasing a product. It's not the product I have a problem with, but the fact there's known system configurations it wont work with and this information is not publically available (eg: at the point of sale/retailer's website/wiki).

[lantus360]

Originally Posted by Vlad

Jens, it is not about complaining but rather finding others with similar problems. Remember first ACA 1230/56 overheating? The whole troubleshooting was done right here at eab, in nothing other but the news section (my account got deleted somehow though, same nick). Or the turbo chameleon 64 on Yahoo groups where you actually expressed your gratitude for detailed reports (I did solder that capacitor myself ) .

Btw - I'm on a replacement RapidRoad already, so I doubt the fault is in this actual module. It would be nice to know what hardware have those that got it to work, what set patch version etc. It is a hobby, I believe for you also, so setting up 'official' support forum for your products would really be very helpful, and most likely reduce your own workload.

Vlad - I'm not certain its your configuration. As its similar to mine.

I have an A4000D + Warp Engine + XSurf 100 + Rapid Road + WB 3.1 and it works without issue. Stock A4000 power supply and using Voodoo 3 card (Picasso 96) via Mediator 4000D. I've had the RR installed since November last year and its been running great.

[roomeo]

@jens

Any news on this issue?

A month has passed since i adressed the issue and made some remarks (which are totally ignored). The silence regarding these issues with keeping info about a product from potential customers is disturbing..

And I must agree with the other posters; this is NOT complaining..

/rant off

Br
Axl

[Dejavu]

Hi everyone and Jens

I read all messages on this topic but i couldn't find the answer. I want to use Rapidroad with ACA500.

What is the correct location of red wire of RapidRoad cable on ACA500?

Subway side or Delfina/Silversurfer side ?


I assumed that there is a key or something like that on the RapidRoad side and it wont be problem.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by Dejavu

I read all messages on this topic but i couldn't find the answer. I want to use Rapidroad with ACA500.

Since there is no sufficient power supply that can handle A500, ACA500 and ACA12xx in addition to USB devices, I recommend not to use RapidRoad on the ACA500 at this point.

Originally Posted by Dejavu

What is the correct location of red wire of RapidRoad cable on ACA500?

Subway side or Delfina/Silversurfer side ?

The Delfina/Silversurfer side would be the correct side. However, I have to reapeat: I do not recommend to operate all this without a good power supply. Since ATX power supplies are no good due to their main rail being the 12V line (not the 5V line as required by the Amiga), you risk the life of all components on that setup.

My current plan is to include a DC-DC converter with the X-Surf-500, so you can add power for USB using an off-the-shelve 12V DC supply.

Jens

[Dejavu]

Thanks for information.

I've already had a power issue when i added Indi.ECS Scandoubler on the top of ACA500 & ACA1233 combination.

I changed my old ATX PSU to a new one which can provide 20A current on +5V rail. Please see the table below link.

http://fsplifestyle.com/product.php?LID=1&PSN=995

According to this page an A1200 with 68060 card , 2xHDD & SCSI card consumes 3A on +5V rail.

so (roughly) my psu should still have 10-15A@+5V margin to provide required power for Rapidroad.


since i have no electrical&electronics expertise, i am not sure that is the correct approach/calculation for the situation.

What do you think?

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Since there is no sufficient power supply that can handle A500, ACA500 and ACA12xx in addition to USB devices, I recommend not to use RapidRoad on the ACA500 at this point.


The Delfina/Silversurfer side would be the correct side. However, I have to reapeat: I do not recommend to operate all this without a good power supply. Since ATX power supplies are no good due to their main rail being the 12V line (not the 5V line as required by the Amiga), you risk the life of all components on that setup.

My current plan is to include a DC-DC converter with the X-Surf-500, so you can add power for USB using an off-the-shelve 12V DC supply.

Jens

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by Dejavu

What do you think?

I think Ian's page has caused a lot of damage already, and should not be referenced here.

ATX power supplies generally have the 12V rail as their main rail these days. That means if there is no sufficient load on the 12V rail, regulation on the 5V rail is no good.

As a result, the step response on 5V is even worse: On a load change, the regulation might get totally out of proportion. Using an ATX power supply for the Amiga is therefore dangerous to all connected hardware.

I haven't seen an A500 or A1200 that draws more than 60W. Always remember that all the power that a computer requires is converted into heat, and you *really* don't have that much heat on an A1200 or A500; it's more like 25-30W.

If you've had power issues, it's most likely due to bad regulation of the power supply (high ripple - my guess is that you've had visible stripes in the Indivision ECS output, a clear indication that ripple is high). I'd accept an ATX power supply if it has separate DC-DC converters for each rail, and thus has no cross-regulation issues, but these are only starting to become available.

If the 5V rail is generated by a proper DC-DC converter, you can safely connect RapidRoad to the ACA500. However, an off-the-shelve average ATX power supply will most likely generate spikes on the 5V rail on every USB hot-plug event, causing random hardware defects. You should not risk that - the Amiga is a classic computer and it deserves a good power supply. A good power supply can't be judged just by voltage and amperage - you need to look at step response on 5V, which is hardly available in standard datasheets.

We've had this power supply discussion on a1k.org just a short while ago, and there were a few good suggestions/candidates for measurement. However, no matter how often people ask, I can't give a recommendation for a power supply unless I have measured it on my own. Since I don't own all the required equipment to measure a power supply (especially isolation), I couldn't do that job to a degree that would be required for a final decision.

The safest thing is to either use the original power supplies (A500 switching supply can provide 4.5 amps on 5V), or to build a DC-DC converter.

Jens

[Retrofan]

Being this such an important matter, I wonder why don't you release a PSU for high demanding Amiga systems. I would buy you one if it isn't so expensive. My three A1200 are actually using ATX psus.

[Toni Wilen]

Only starting to be available?

All high-end (and high efficiency) ATX PC power supplies have been using DC-DC for 5v and 3.3v rails for years. Any good power supply review will include type of PSU, group regulated or DC-DC, including scope shots showing quality of rails, including "cross-load" condition where +12v has very low load and high(er) load on +5v rail.

"Too" cheap power supplies have always been and probably will be total garbage.

[kriz]

A ultimate power supply solution is in demand for the standard Amigas indeed A safe and ready to go solution would be the best ..

[Locutus]

Just check Meanwell, they make great powersupplies which are perfect for Amiga use.

[Schoenfeld]

Toni: Sure, if you look at the more adcanced ones, and if you're willing to pay the price. However, just showing people how to use an ATX power supply on an Amiga bears the danger of someone taking some old PC's PSU, putting classic hardware in danger.

Kriz: As a result of the discussion on a1k.org, I'll look into designing a DC-DC converter that lets you use a standard 19V laptop supply for an A500/A1200.

Locutus: You're right, Meanwell makes good power supplies, but has recently changed technical data for some types that were interesting for the Amiga. Mind the wording: They *were* interesting, but are not any longer, as ripple voltage specifications were changed for the bad. I don't know the exact reason: They have either had complaints that the PSUs did not comply with the specs, or they have changed something in the design to make it cheaper.

Jens

[Locutus]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Locutus: You're right, Meanwell makes good power supplies, but has recently changed technical data for some types that were interesting for the Amiga. Mind the wording: They *were* interesting, but are not any longer, as ripple voltage specifications were changed for the bad. I don't know the exact reason: They have either had complaints that the PSUs did not comply with the specs, or they have changed something in the design to make it cheaper.

I didn't know that, I have a meanwell supply in my expanded A4k and it works well, although I have really made measurements other then voltages on a meter.

I guess its a knock on wood, 'maybe its fine' :-)

The original A4k supply was beyond borked in my case, so its an improvement already.

[kriz]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Kriz: As a result of the discussion on a1k.org, I'll look into designing a DC-DC converter that lets you use a standard 19V laptop supply for an A500/A1200.
Jens

Really nice news

[Dejavu]

thanks for your informative replys,

Jens, Do you have any scheduled release dates for X-Surf500 & DC-DC converter thing

[spudje]

Any news on the A3640 issues?

I'm expecting an A3000 soon. It currently has Ariadne and Highway but considering to replace with X-Surf and RapidRoad to safe a slot and improve air flow.

Am I correct to say that the issues do not happen in combination with Cyberstorm PPC cards?

[Pyromania]

I guess USB-C support is out of the question? Might as well future proof it.

[zharn]

Im another one - i only got it yesterday. X surf 100 is working, white light on RR comes on

z2 or z3 - same problem

A4000 - A3640 - Buster 11
nak timeout

Root hub enumeration failed. Blame your hardware driver program

Not Happy Face, cant play with my new toy

[Schoenfeld]

I'm in contact with the programmer. Haven't been able to reproduce the problem here (just didn't have the time to set up an A4000, as I test Z3 stuff on an A3000), but we did find in other support cases that anything newer than MUI3.8 causes trouble.

Jens