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Old 06 August 2020, 16:04   #21
Galahad/FLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeChuck View Post
Yeah, Lemmings must be up there.

I wonder about Worms.. it got crazy popular and kept Team 17 going for years and years but Im not sure how well the Amiga version sold as it was released in the Twilight years of the platforn.
I'm guessing it must have done well enough for Ocean to have helped with distribution, knowing the Amiga was still a part of Team 17's plans at that point.
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Old 06 August 2020, 17:09   #22
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Agreed the TV/Film licences were commonly the biggest sellers regardless if the game/reviews were crap, and as you say you can’t keep remaking them without having big sales to back up the licence fee’s. Trouble is we don’t yet have any figures from Ocean on those.

Btw i went through the Ocean, US Gold and Amiga books by Chris Wilkins without any luck on sales numbers to save anyone going through those again.

I don’t have the Gremlin book if anyone has that to check through?


Some other numbers to add:

Zool - 90,000
Cannon Fodder - 60,000 (first 6 months)
Bill’s Tomato Game - 11,000 (first day sales)

Source The One Amiga July 1994


SWOS - 50,000 (first day sales across Europe)
Jungle Strike - 20,000 - first shipment, unknown if other shipments were made.
PGA European Tour - 20,000 - first shipment, unknown if other shipments were made.

Source The One Amiga Feb 1995


Couple of CD32 figures:

Pinball Fantasies - 20,000
Microcosm - 20,000

The latter would have probably been more in total as this number was only a couple of months after launch.

Source Amiga CD! Issue 2

Last edited by Amigajay; 06 August 2020 at 22:04.
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Old 06 August 2020, 18:00   #23
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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
You have to remember, Robocop was massive for Ocean, you dont go securing the licence twice more unless you're confident you're going to see the sales.

ST and Amiga were same style of game, but Special FX wrote bespoke versions for each machine which likely would have cost Ocean more rather than just port the ST version to Amiga.

I'm guessing Robocop 2 was an important release and I would further suggest they paid more for the licence over the previous game.
Robocop 3 with its special copy protection?
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Old 06 August 2020, 18:04   #24
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Some games not yet mentioned:

Populous, the game that made Bullfrog world famous. Amiga original game, released at 1989 and published by Electronic Arts. Got two data-disks and a sequel, and was converted to all possible systems.

Elite and Sim City. Both were super popular, genre defining, multi-platform mega-hit games, which probably sold pretty well on the Amiga as well.
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Old 06 August 2020, 18:14   #25
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Robocop 3 with its special copy protection?
Well yeah. As ineffective as it turned out to be, that plus the fact that it went 3D seems to indicate that Ocean were banking on the game quite a lot. I guess the fact that the second movie was a bit of a dud was forgiven for the fact that Robocop 3 was going to be a kid-friendly movie...
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Old 06 August 2020, 18:15   #26
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Id guess at the lotus games and supercars both sold well, especially lotus for them to make 3 of them, most people I knew had an original of a lotus game, same with supercars 1+2, even if it was a budget release.
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Old 06 August 2020, 18:18   #27
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Id guess at the lotus games and supercars both sold well, especially lotus for them to make 3 of them, most people I knew had an original of a lotus game, same with supercars 1+2, even if it was a budget release.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...4&postcount=13
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Old 06 August 2020, 18:44   #28
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Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
Robocop 3 with its special copy protection?
Yup, they went to the trouble of using it and i think it cost Ocean £1 per dongle which if I remember rightly, Ocean absorbed the cost of and didnt pass onto the user.

Why goto those lengths otherwise?
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Old 06 August 2020, 19:59   #29
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Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
I remember Rick Dangerous being a pretty big hit. Saying that, the poor fucker popped his cloggs only for Lara Croft to fill them.

I hate to say this but I reckon Outrun might be in the top 10.
Rick Dangerous sold 1x.000 copies. Unfortunately. If you ask Simon Phipps, he will tell you.
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Old 06 August 2020, 20:08   #30
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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Rainbow Arts and Thalion were both not as big as you would imagine.

Their distribution was terrible outside Germany.

Turrican series despite its popularity didnt sell well at all because of it.

Had Psygnosis or Ocean been publishers, I think the Turrican series would have been significantly bigger sellers.
Yes. Games were not selling on ST, and Thalion got no big hits in term of sales, out of those of Lionheart and Ambermoon, which were they biggest ones.

About Rainbow Arts, let me illustrate :
The distribution in France was done by a gathering of publishers called Pool Publishers of Softwares (P.P.S.).

Those idiots at RA did something completely silly : They simply used the german advertising for Turrican and Turrican 2, and translated them for the french market. Problem : they enforced the Amiga and C64 version, when the french market machines were the CPC, Amiga and ST. the C64 was simply non existant.

It was like advertising a car in a specific country, while this car is just hated or not the one the people wanted to buy.

This is why Turrican got so anormally low sales. They could have sold much more on the Amiga, CPC and ST...... The CPC was the leader of the market, they just amputed themselves from a big load of money.

Even with piracy, they should have sold 80.000 copies of it easily just on CPC alone. Most CPC users loved Turrican I and II.
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Old 06 August 2020, 20:22   #31
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Yes. Games were not selling on ST, and Thalion got no big hits in term of sales, out of those of Lionheart and Ambermoon, which were they biggest ones.
Thallion on the ST had a lot of hits, their coders were all prolific in the demo scene at the time. Enchanted Land I remember being a particularly well coded game (average on the Amiga ofcourse), Chambers of Shoalin - again well received on the ST, Wings of Death, Leav'in Terramis... all hits on the ST. Prehistoic Tales was a pile of shit mind you which was done by the Lost Boys.

They had a decent racer too but can't remember it's name - again, very well received on the ST.

I always think that Thallion were to the ST what Psygnosis was to the Amiga.

The ST sold a shit ton of games in it's life time, probably more than the Amiga.
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Old 06 August 2020, 20:30   #32
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I'm pretty sure the first Amiga bestseller was Defender of The Crown. The quintessential killer app.

Wikipedia says it "sold 20K copies by the end of 1986 and 1 million by 2001." So the 20K was definitely exclusive to Amiga (the ports came out in 1987) but some of that million as well.
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Old 06 August 2020, 20:33   #33
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Some games not yet mentioned:

Populous, the game that made Bullfrog world famous. Amiga original game, released at 1989 and published by Electronic Arts. Got two data-disks and a sequel, and was converted to all possible systems.

Elite and Sim City. Both were super popular, genre defining, multi-platform mega-hit games, which probably sold pretty well on the Amiga as well.

I would agree on Populous, I bought an original of that Before I got an Amiga!


Dungeon Master?
Was pretty popular on the ST which came out ages before the Amiga
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Old 06 August 2020, 20:34   #34
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I found the link below which is a pretty decent resource with hard evidence where each Amiga game was in the charts...

No sales figures though but I think the game positions tell the story.

https://creator.zohopublic.com/dream...AzNxD2SBbrdSSQ
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Old 06 August 2020, 21:22   #35
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I'm pretty sure the first Amiga bestseller was Defender of The Crown. The quintessential killer app.

Wikipedia says it "sold 20K copies by the end of 1986 and 1 million by 2001." So the 20K was definitely exclusive to Amiga (the ports came out in 1987) but some of that million as well.
How could I forget "Cinemaware" games
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Old 06 August 2020, 22:44   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
Thallion on the ST had a lot of hits, their coders were all prolific in the demo scene at the time. Enchanted Land I remember being a particularly well coded game (average on the Amiga ofcourse), Chambers of Shoalin - again well received on the ST, Wings of Death, Leav'in Terramis... all hits on the ST. Prehistoic Tales was a pile of shit mind you which was done by the Lost Boys.

They had a decent racer too but can't remember it's name - again, very well received on the ST.

I always think that Thallion were to the ST what Psygnosis was to the Amiga.

The ST sold a shit ton of games in it's life time, probably more than the Amiga.
Hits maybe on the technical aspect, but here Graeme we talk about software sales.

Thalion had so much troubles to survive because they focused on the ST, which had nowhere the sales the softwares had on the amiga.

for 2 softs bought on ST, 10 were sold on Amiga. I got some sales figures on the ST, and those were ridiculous compared to those on the Amiga.

5.000 copies or under it's a flop (either machines), but 10.000 copies on the ST is average, while on the Amiga it's bad.

20.000 copies of a soft sold is a success on the ST, while on the Amiga it's average.

For example, Dungeon Master on ST sold 40.000 copies. It's one of the biggest ST sales. Compared that to let's say, Shadow of the Beast (80.000 copies), Cannon Fodder (+100.000 copies just on the amiga), Lemmings (500.000 copies just on Amiga), etc etc

The Software sales were nowhere near the same between the ST and Amiga, nevermind the fact that the Amiga always had the biggest market share on the ST (throughout the research i made).

and we were more Amiga users than ST users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
Thallion on the ST had a lot of hits, their coders were all prolific in the demo scene at the time. Enchanted Land I remember being a particularly well coded game (average on the Amiga ofcourse), Chambers of Shoalin - again well received on the ST, Wings of Death, Leav'in Terramis... all hits on the ST. Prehistoic Tales was a pile of shit mind you which was done by the Lost Boys.

They had a decent racer too but can't remember it's name - again, very well received on the ST.

I always think that Thallion were to the ST what Psygnosis was to the Amiga.

The ST sold a shit ton of games in it's life time, probably more than the Amiga.
Oh and I forgot, on Gerry's Thalion Source Fan Website, Erik Simon has stipulated in an interview that the ST that it never was profitable, That most people never gave a shit about the sorcery they used in their games and that it was time to stop the mess with the ST, and pass on Amiga and PC.

the Amiga has a big piracy scene, but it was nowhere as industrial as it was on ST.

Last edited by lilalurl; 07 August 2020 at 00:10. Reason: Don't forget the Edit button
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Old 07 August 2020, 09:53   #37
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Hits maybe on the technical aspect, but here Graeme we talk about software sales.

Thalion had so much troubles to survive because they focused on the ST, which had nowhere the sales the softwares had on the amiga.

for 2 softs bought on ST, 10 were sold on Amiga. I got some sales figures on the ST, and those were ridiculous compared to those on the Amiga.

5.000 copies or under it's a flop (either machines), but 10.000 copies on the ST is average, while on the Amiga it's bad.

20.000 copies of a soft sold is a success on the ST, while on the Amiga it's average.

For example, Dungeon Master on ST sold 40.000 copies. It's one of the biggest ST sales. Compared that to let's say, Shadow of the Beast (80.000 copies), Cannon Fodder (+100.000 copies just on the amiga), Lemmings (500.000 copies just on Amiga), etc etc

The Software sales were nowhere near the same between the ST and Amiga, nevermind the fact that the Amiga always had the biggest market share on the ST (throughout the research i made).

and we were more Amiga users than ST users.

Can you back up your figures with verified sources Denis?

This link which has some sales for Amiga titles differs from yours (SOTB for example).

https://www.everythingamiga.com/2016...d-million.html


While I don't have any hard evidence (yet) I'd be inclined to say that more ST games were sold over their Amiga counterparts simply on the basis that the ST was more popular than the Amiga in the mid Eighties. Only until people started to notice what the Amiga could really do and ditch their ST did sales start to swing over to the Amiga as far as games are concerned - I'd reckon this was around 1989.
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Old 07 August 2020, 11:29   #38
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Nice find, some good data worth extracting from that site.

Couple more to add:

Sensible Soccer European Champions - 130,000
First Samurai - 18,000

Source Amiga Format Special Issue 7
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Old 07 August 2020, 12:30   #39
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Yes. Games were not selling on ST, and Thalion got no big hits in term of sales, out of those of Lionheart and Ambermoon, which were they biggest ones.
AFAIK Thalion's biggest hit was A320, as dull as it appears to most people here probably:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://thethalionsource.w4f.eu/Artikel/fua.htm
The game came in a heavy box filled with a big manual and aviation maps. It became a huge hit, so huge that the managing director at one point got up every two hours at night to feed the disk duplication machines which were running in his basement at home with fresh floppies. It became so huge that one weekend, the developers (us) had to come and help fill the boxes. So there we were, any of one of us top people in our respective domains, filling boxes (if you ever hear me saying that "I did pretty much everything you can do in the games business", I am referring to that weekend). If I recall correctly, the game sold over 250.000 copies, on Amiga and ST (and maybe PC), in the early nineties, mainly in Germany and the UK. There was even a players' conference in the UK.
[...]
That was my first experience with what I call the model railroad market segment. That (and all of the above) was not in any way derogatory, bitter, or sarcastic. It's a passionate group of people with lots of disposable income, and this game, with its realistic depiction of commercial air flight, spoke to their hearts.
Probably also one of the Amiga games with the best sales-to-piracy-ratio. As the Amiga was the first system to get it (and the DOS version came out two years later), I guess the biggest chunk of the sales was for the Commodore.
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Old 07 August 2020, 14:17   #40
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More info from the games special AF special 7, with some interesting results, although no sales figures.

AF asked which was the best selling Amiga games for each company (upto mid 1993)

Accolade - Elvira 2
Alternative - Dr Who Dalek Attack
Audiogenic - Graham Gooch WC Cricket
Codemasters - First Division Manager
Core Design - Chuck Rock
Daze - Ishar
D.I - F-16 Combat Pilot
Domark - Championship Manager 93
Electronic Arts - Populous
Empire - Campaign
Flair - Trolls
Grandslam - Nick Faldo’s Champ Golf
Gremlin - Zool
Impressions - Caesar
Infogrames - Sim City Deluxe
Interplay - Battlechess
Krisalis - Man Utd Europe
Microprose - F1GP
Mindscape - Captive
Mirage - Humans
Ocean - Robocop
Prism - Football Manager
Psygnosis - Lemmings
Rage - Striker
Renegade - Sensible Soccer
Team 17 - Alien Breed
Thalion - Airbus Europe
Titus - Blues Brothers
Ubi Soft - Dynablaster
US Gold - Street Fighter 2
Virgin - Jimmy Whites Snooker
Zeppelin - Match Of The Day


Source Amiga Format Special Issue 7
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