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Old 01 May 2012, 01:10   #1
Retrofan
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Hawk ramboard refuses 8mb ram

I'm mounting another A1200 and I'll be running my 1D1mb with 3.0 kickstarts, and recently I've read that that is the best you can do if you want to use the Pcmcia with 8mb. In fact I had this problem when using 3.1's.

My problem now is my Hawk ramboard. Time ago I changed the ram but I coudn't get it running with 8mb but with 4, and the jumpers are right (I have the manual).

Now I've ordered another 8mb ram to try it http://www.ebay.es/itm/380306184693?...84.m1439.l2649

Hope this will be ok. I've tried with another PSU and nothing.

The thing is that I've got another 8 mb's one and it wasn't working either. I just can use 4mb with both of them.

Is it just the ram?

Last edited by Retrofan; 02 June 2012 at 21:34. Reason: Thread title changed.
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Old 02 May 2012, 20:49   #2
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How does it not work, does it show up as working in early boot menu but has no ram, or something else? Do both cards fail in the same way?

Are you 100% sure it's an 8mb module?
Does the 8mb module work when configured as 4mb?

What model is the other ram expansion, and how did you set the jumpers? (People misinterpret jumper settings all the time.)
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Old 02 May 2012, 22:56   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgh View Post
How does it not work, does it show up as working in early boot menu but has no ram, or something else? Do both cards fail in the same way?

Are you 100% sure it's an 8mb module?
Does the 8mb module work when configured as 4mb?

What model is the other ram expansion, and how did you set the jumpers? (People misinterpret jumper settings all the time.)

I'm not sure if they both fail the same way, I'll have to try it.
Yep, they are 8mb modules, as both have an sticker (they are different though) saying they have 8mb.
The rams work when configured as 4mb.
The jumpers are right for 8mb as the manual says:
LK1 between 2-3
LK2 "" 1-2
LK3 "" 2-3

I have to try them again, but I think none (or one of them) was giving 4mb selecting it for 4mb (1-2, 1-2, 2-3).

Edit: Ok I've tried both again. They work selecting 4mb (selecting 8mb it doesn't boot) and after booting I've got in other memory around 2,651,000. ¿¿¿??? with both.

Using the Amitek floppy to test the ram it says that it's got 4mb. Ram ok...
Sysinfo also shows the board with 4086kb.

Is it normal to have that in Other memory when the card has 4mb?

I'm using CWBLite with 16 colors..

Last edited by Retrofan; 16 May 2012 at 23:06.
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Old 04 May 2012, 06:15   #4
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2,6mb left after loading WB is fine, 1,4mb used for a whole OS is not bad after all, is it?
If the simms are 4mb all is normal. If they are indeed 8mb I don't know what's up.
You can check their size on an autoconfiguring board to be sure of the size..
(I've had a couple mislabeled RAM modules over the years..)
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Old 04 May 2012, 09:39   #5
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I think the Amitek floppy gave me my answer: now they don't have but 4mb. Edit: No, the Amitek program is a shit that will only tell what you have selected manually in the jumpers...

A noob question: I have a 16mb ram. Could I try with that? Will it just use half of what it's got?

Edit: Yesterday I received another 8mb ram... and it's the same. The Amiga will only boot selecting 4mb. I think it can't be the ram; I've tried 3 or them, or does it need a very special one?

I tried the 16mb one, but it wasn't booting either.


If it isn't the ram, what can it be?

And this is not the first time I ask about this matter...http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...=hawk+ramboard (LOL, my first post).

Last edited by Retrofan; 04 July 2012 at 23:49.
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Old 14 May 2012, 18:44   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrofan View Post
Yesterday I received another 8mb ram... and it's the same. The Amiga will only boot selecting 4mb. I think it can't be the ram; I've tried 3 or them, or do they need a very special one?

I tried the 16mb one, but it wasn't booting either.


If it isn't the ram, what can it be?

And this is not the first time I ask about this matter... http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...=hawk+ramboard
Tried cleaning the expansion slot, I get all sorts of odd ram related errors from dirty contacts.
Errors, range from not booting to guru's and random freezes.
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Old 14 May 2012, 20:31   #7
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Thanks. Now I've cleaned all. First I had taken out the chips that are on sockets and cleaned those too. It wasn't booting.

But I've got something. I've tried to boot using the Workbench Install disk (BTW, it's 3.1 and my kickstarts 3.0) and it boots that way. It shows the 8mb of ram, and I've run the Amitek floppy. It shows:
Ram 8mb Installed
FPU 68882 Installed

Making the test it says "Ram failed at $6000000"
I've tried another ram and I get the same message.

So? Is it the ram then? Where can I get one? Do you have in Amigakit?

Edit: It seems you don't have. I've ordered another 60ns http://www.ebay.es/itm/320827288931?...84.m1439.l2649
I like this part: Each SIMM is byte-by-byte Tested. Working 100% OK


Edit: It's Really extrange. I can install OS3.1 (BTW those are the only floppys I've got, the OS3.0's are unreadable), although I'm using kickstarts 3.0. I didn't know I could do that. The thing is that now I can boot with the Hawk and it shows the 8mb. I can use the Pcmcia as long as I'm using the 3.0 kickstarts.

If I do the Amitek test of the ram it tells the problem I commented "Ram failed at $6000000".

I don't know why now it boots and if I use CwbAdvSp it doesn't. I think I'm going to try with CWBLite.

EDIT: Ok I've installed CWBLite, but it only boots when I select 4mb. Is there anything in CWB that doesn't let it boot?

Edit:
Very interesting. If I use the safemode s-s of CWBLite it doesn't boot either selecting 8mb, but if I use the s-s of my 3.1 installation, it BOOTS using 8mb.

So, there is something in CWB s-s that doesn't let it to use those 8mb.

EDIT: SOLVED!! It's FBlit. If I disable just that I can run CWBLite with 8mb of ram.
Edit: This thread about kickstarts 3.1 or 3.0 is very interesting http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=11875

Now I will try to change the icons, although I can't see some of them, like for example ken Icons. Have to see which and how can I use.

Edit: Interesting again. I've got another Cf with CWBAdvSp which I can run using 4mb. I've tried disabling there FBlit and when it boots using 8mb I can't see but the tittle of the Workbench screen. Booting again selecting 4mb with FBlit disabled didn't let me see the icons right . So, has it something to be with them?

Edit: Thinking well, perhaps all this problems I'm getting is just because when using 8mb FBlit tries to use some part of my ram than can be simply bad. Perhaps just changing the ram I'll be able to use FBlit and boot with 8mb.

Last edited by Retrofan; 17 May 2012 at 12:33.
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Old 17 May 2012, 12:26   #8
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If its working from a WB floppy, hard to see how its hardware.
Using 3.1 on KS3.0 can cause all sorts of odd crashes.
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Old 17 May 2012, 12:37   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOL View Post
If its working from a WB floppy, hard to see how its hardware.
Using 3.1 on KS3.0 can cause all sorts of odd crashes.
Yep, I'm reading that now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
Some of the differences you're asking about are detailed below:

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31.html

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31rev.txt


Personally, I wouldn't upgrade beyond Workbench 3.1 with just an 030/50 and 16Mb. Workbench 3.5/3.9 is quite sluggish for anything under 040. You would be better off just building on Workbench 3.0/3.1 using Aminet system patches/applications or similar.

Also, contrary to what some people might say, there's no guarantee that Workbench 3.1 will run stable under Kickstart 3.0, especially on an A1200. At the very least, some library functions won't be properly utilised. Moreover, your machine may not even boot, or alternatively you will get random gurus.......things I've experienced on both the A500/600 and A1200 in such circumstances.
Have to try to make a copy of Workbench 3.0. I've got the kickstarts, the floppys (unreadable), Amiga Forever (I don't see the adf's of 3.0 there)... Will try to find someplace to get them.
Edit: Nothing, I don't find them anywhere. I've tried with disksalv but I don't think that copy will work. I just need the Workbench 3.0 adf, the others work. Edit: I don't find my install floppy either.

Edit: Ok Emule has given me what was mine. Lets see now CWBAdv istalled with kickstarts 3.0 and the 3.0 Workbench floppy.

Edit: It seems that CWBAdv is the same to the Hawk than CWBAdvSP. I've tried in the s-s disabling fblit, but it only was booting with 4mb.
But... I've tried using the s-s of CWBLite without Fblit and it works nice; well, I've got a guru booting of recoverable alert, but later it boots. I like it more than the Lite one. Have to see what the problem is in the s-s, but it doesn't seem I'm loosing anything (by now). I have to try too when I'll receive my latest 8mb ram.

Edit: Nope, it hangs when I try to scan games in Igame or when I start Ibrowse... So? I've got an step in the middle: CWBFull. I'll try with it and if it hangs like this I will wait for the new ram and if it's the same I will use CWBLite without Fblit, but installed using WB 3.0 . Edit: No, that's the worse of all. It doesn't boot in any way with 8mb.

Just to Clarify: I'm only trying to use a Hawk ramboard using 8mb ram and also having the Pcmcia. For that I must use kickstarts 3.0
So... IF you have a Hawk ramboard and you can use 8mb ram I would like to know what OS are you using.

Edit: Ok, I've got CWBFull working with 8mb after changing the user-startup, but still some problems, so I will try the new ram when it gets here.

Edit: I have the idea that my new ram won't work either. Here is another thread exactly as mine: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...ght=amitek+ram

Last edited by Retrofan; 20 May 2012 at 19:29.
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Old 23 May 2012, 10:53   #10
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Try another memory tester, there are many on aminet.
If several memory testers fail above $6000000 (=start of upper 4mb) when booting from Workbench 3.0 floppy, I would say the upper 4MB are not available to the system hardware-wise (for whatever reason), and any software failures are likely due to that.

It is possible to have workbench and sysinfo show 8MB even with a 4MB SIMM, with jumpers set to 8MB. (depending on the board, I guess)
At one point I only had one SIMM, and it was a 4MB module mislabeled as 8MB. I still have nightmares from that

I'm not saying all your modules are only 4MB, it might be a design fault or hardware failure of the Hawk board.
Just pointing out that having WB show 8MB is no guarantee that everything works and that any problem has to be in software.

Last edited by fgh; 23 May 2012 at 11:20. Reason: Rephrase
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Old 23 May 2012, 17:02   #11
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Hi. Yes, I've tried Memtest and it was full of errors. Edit: And thank you very much for your mail.

Well, today I've received my latest 8mb ram and it seems the worse of all. It sometimes boots with 4mb, but ramdomly it freezes. With 8mb it doesn't work. With memtest it hangs.

I'm going to complain to the seller, but ... What is happening?

Edit: This seller is a serious guy. He has offered me to send me 2-3 different rams to see if any of them work, and if they do to send him back the rest. That's the best I could do with this problem. As I've told him I would think it's the Hawk which is faulty if it not were that his ram is giving problems with 4mb even. Anyway he's told me that " I tested it with a professional memory tested, so I am 100% sure it is working. Maybe the problem is in your RAM board.I am 100% that the RAM SIMM I sent to you is completely as described."

I trust him. But I think also that it can be a ram working but not compatible with the Hawk. ?¿

Last edited by Retrofan; 23 May 2012 at 21:49.
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Old 24 May 2012, 23:01   #12
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Hi, everyone.
I have this card (without fpu) and the same problem as you.
I'm not an expert, but I found this description on a old ebay auction:

"This accelerator card works fine and has 8MB fast ram onboard. There is also an RTC = Real Time Clock, not sure of the battery which is and easy replacement as it is the CR2032 coin type. The board is the Rev D which means unlike the C version this board can handle upto 8MB where as the C version can only handle 4MB Max."

Cant remember which board revision is mine, but perhaps this is the cause of our problems.

In last couple of years I tested seven pieces of EDO RAM modules and none of them wanted to work with 8mb, but only with 4mb.
I have OS 3.0 and WB 3.1 installed on CF card.

Last edited by Pegaz; 24 May 2012 at 23:12.
 
Old 24 May 2012, 23:42   #13
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That could be ok, but I've got the original manual and original floppy. It says it can handle 8mb ram. Anyway I've never heard of a revision C. Will try to find something, but I doubt it. And I don't find a reason to put jumpers for 8mb if it coudn't use them.

Edit: And now I've got to search the difference between Edo and Fpm rams. "My" seller told me he would send both types. Edit: (Fast one) Edo rams began in 1995. Perhaps the Hawk wasn't designed for them ?¿ Edit: My manual was printed in 1993... I suggest that they coudn't advice about not using Edo rams if they didn't exist...

And you can see I'm putting interest in this, so (if you know me) I have to find an answer. What's more, now I'm seeing a lot of people searching and buying cheap ramboards like this, and they will began to ask about this matter.

Last edited by Retrofan; 25 May 2012 at 00:54.
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Old 25 May 2012, 10:32   #14
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I have one further question.
I ordered 68882 FPU 40MHz and think about whether to take the crystal oscillator at 40MHz like this, or not?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006688488...84.m1423.l2649

Is it suitable for Hawk board and how much is Amiga faster (for example in 3d rendering in demos) compared with the no osclator installed, when FPU runs at default 14Mhz?

I read that high-frequency oscillators can damage the FPU and I would not have to risk, if the speed difference is not that big.
 
Old 25 May 2012, 22:51   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegaz View Post
I have one further question.
I ordered 68882 FPU 40MHz and think about whether to take the crystal oscillator at 40MHz like this, or not?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006688488...84.m1423.l2649

Is it suitable for Hawk board and how much is Amiga faster (for example in 3d rendering in demos) compared with the no osclator installed, when FPU runs at default 14Mhz?

I read that high-frequency oscillators can damage the FPU and I would not have to risk, if the speed difference is not that big.

It seems a good crystal. Just 40mhz for a 40mhz Fpu. They designed it to work, so I won't be telling it can't. Remember to change the jumpers to use it.

About faster... I don't know, I just want it to play some players (some need Fpu, like AmigaAmp) and (not sure) Ibrowse has to work better/faster with it IIRC. I would like to read what you did about damage to it using the crystal.

Btw... SOMEBODY USING 8MB WITH AN AMITEK RAM BOARD?

Last edited by Retrofan; 26 May 2012 at 01:26.
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Old 26 May 2012, 12:25   #16
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AFAIK EDO was completely backwards compatible with older equipment, and the only problems occured when mixing FPM and EDO on some equipment supporting EDO.

If some revisions of the Hawk simply doesn't work with 8MB, it wouldn't be the only hardware in history that doesn't work as planned/promised.

It seems there was a problem with the Hawk board related to 8MB and PCMCIA, depending on the version of the chip labeled 'Peel'.
I didn't find much info, but it is mentioned here and here.. I bet the free upgrade service is not available any more though

The mentioned ebay post is here, you could contact the seller, perhaps he has more info..
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Old 26 May 2012, 14:20   #17
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Thanks for that info. What I say is that I don't have any problem with the Pcmcia, apart of that I have to boot with it (using kickstarts 3.0), and I don't think that problem has something to be with not booting with 8mb (with or without Pcmcia inserted).

About revision C, mine is revision C, well, it says Iss C (issue C I suppose). I've sent a message to the seller. What I see is that he says also that his Amitek can take Fpu till 50Mhz, that is wrong, as the max is 40Mhz.

Edit: Another guy with the same problem: https://groups.google.com/group/comp...AdN7AH8Q?hl=en


Edit: This from http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...gi?HARDID=944:



Issue C, exactly as mine, so forget about what the seller said. BTW 8mb FPM ram it seems. I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY INFO ABOUT THIS RAM; BRAND FOR EXAMPLE.

Edit: Today's post. Another guy with the same problem: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=30247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymity View Post
...Also I have a hawk fitted with 4mb extended ram with fpu, putting 8meg and setting the jumper on the accelertor just crashes the system and prevents booting.... grr

Last edited by Retrofan; 27 May 2012 at 20:38.
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Old 28 May 2012, 00:58   #18
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That board there looks exactly like my old power computing one.
It was fussy with ram and would take out pcmcia slot if set to 8mb.
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Old 28 May 2012, 01:19   #19
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could be absence of kickrom 3.1
or not compatible memory,i had some issues when changed my mtec for what looks like exact pc memory ram edo card
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Old 28 May 2012, 01:32   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rampartsagain View Post
could be absence of kickrom 3.1
I've tried with kickstarts 3.1 too

Quote:
Originally Posted by rampartsagain View Post
or not compatible memory...
That's what we are talking about. I'm SURE there's somewhere hidden a compatible ram, but there aren't any instructions about the right one. What there is is a lot of people buying and trying a lot of different rams, just like me.
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