Recording Amiga gameplay - video capture advice

[Angus]

Hi guys,
Earlier this week I needed to capture some Amiga gameplay edit and upload to youtube:
[ Show youtube player ]


The easiest way was filming it with my video camera. It worked okay, but it was a bit of messing about, and I was hoping I might manage a more elegant way of doing it. And one that wouldn't feature the back of my head, had I not been filming a rolling demo.


I'm using a 1200 (PiStorm) and my TV is a Sony Bravia KDL-26S3000. My Amiga RGB goes in via SCART to AV1, but from what I understand AV2 is "intelligent" and will also output from the TV. I'm not sure if this means it will output what is coming in from AV1.......


I also have a SCART to HDMI converter box around here somewhere, but I'm not clear what it does with audio.


I guess I could record to my pc, but it's across the room and would involve long cables which I'd prefer to avoid if possible.
I've seen some boxes that accept hdmi andrecord to usb stick before outputing the hdmi. That seems quite attractive.


I would welcome some advice on this. I don't want to stream or anything like that, I just want to get a decent recording of gameplay (stereo audio!)
hopefully in a straightforward and economical manner.

[pandy71]

Component capture (RGB) options are quite limited - normally i would say to lower your purchase risk go for ebay and search for affordably priced Blackmagic Design Intensity with analog option (should be less than 50$) - people complain about their capture capabilities but this is related to CVBS/S-Video capture from VCR and lack of TBC in Intensity - never saw anyone using it to capture RGB signal from Amiga (but Amiga should be quite standard from TV broadcast perspective). Normally people use Amiga emulator so avoid capture issues.
Perhaps others can advise some working solution - you may also try to contact Blackmagic Design to get their feedback on this.

HDMI to USB usually use MJPEG compression to satisfy USB limited bandwidth (480Mbps in case of commonly used capture solutions) - FTDI offer some USB3 solution using standard UVC specification but still this is only part of problem.

---few days later---

Strangely no one proposed anything else - i think this confirm that most of people use emulator and capture screen to file not real physical video output. Of course if you accepting lower quality then you can go for any PC based solution supporting S-Video or even CVBS. Personally i would buy some older PC and use some capture card (perhaps even very old PCI solution based on Brooktree 478/479/878/879 and their Conexant newer versions). Linux based or older Windows (2000/XP) dedicated capture computer can be reasonable approach.

[Daedalus]

Personally I use an old-ish AverMedia PCIe capture card that has HDMI and VGA inputs. The VGA input mostly works fine with the native RGB signal from the Amiga despite it not officially supporting the native Amiga frequencies, but some games are just slightly beyond what it can do. I have also used a cheap RGB SCART-HDMI converter and that works quite well (including audio) apart from the introduced lag. The lag isn't really an issue if you're just looking to record - you can always use the composite output for a real-time display.

Unfortunately these options, like the others suggested above, involve recording on your PC and so straggling the cables. If you have a laptop, a HDMI-USB capture device will probably work well enough with your existing converter SCART-HDMI converter. A stand-alone recorder is not something I've used myself so I can't comment on compatibility etc.

There are lots of people who stream and record video from their real Amigas, it might be worth reaching out to a few and seeing what hardware they use; a single topic in a busy forum can easily go unnoticed which might explain why none of them have replied. Many use a more sophisticated RGB-HDMI converter like a RetroTink or OSSC and feed that into a HDMI capture device of some sort, and of course there are modern scandoublers like the Indivision that give you a native digital video signal that can be fed directly into a capture device.

[kriz]

I did a recording with a scart to hdmi and a cheap hdmi to usb recorder: [ Show youtube player ] + [ Show youtube player ] I prefer to use indivision or just a crt, but this works quite well for recording ..

Hdmi to scart used: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002818244979.html

[Angus]

Thanks for the thoughts, guys.
I have bought an AGPTEK HD Video Capture box thingy, and this afternoon I tried it out, with limited success.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AGPtek%C2%A.../dp/B00VM4J4Y6

My cunning plan was that my Sony Bravira KDL-26S3000 TV will output whatever is being displayed, through AV2 which is a scart socket. My Amiga goes in via scarrt (AV1) so I thought this should work well, allowing me to play or monitor with no lag while the AGPTEK recorded to a usb stick.

P.S. The APGTEK only accepts HDMI so I needed to put my scart to HDMI between the TV and the AGPTEK.

I could not get any Amiga signal recorded, but if I told the TV to output the TV signal, it can do that - so the plumbing is working - just not for the Amiga.

In the end, I bypassed the TV and plugged the Amiga straught into the scart to HDMI box, and the AGPTEK recorded that fine. Of course I couldn't see what the hell was going on.

So, any idea what is preventing the Amiga signal being recorded from the TV's AV2 socket?

[Daedalus]

Perhaps that sort of arrangement simply isn't supported by the TV, I've no idea. But what you could do is use the composite output of the Amiga with the TV. The quality isn't nearly as good as RGB but it's perfectly useable.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Perhaps that sort of arrangement simply isn't supported by the TV, I've no idea. But what you could do is use the composite output of the Amiga with the TV. The quality isn't nearly as good as RGB but it's perfectly useable.

Useable but I want to show off Amiga stuff in the best light I can practically manage, within my practical limitations.


This is what I got earlier:


[ Show youtube player ]

[pandy71]

You can use SVideo to play and RGB2HDMI to capture but i assume this perhaps is NOK for you - try HDMI splitter - there is a chance to deal with two HDMI sinks at once.

[Angus]

Okay, this is my latest attempt - which I'm fairly happy with:
[ Show youtube player ]

I'm plugging the Amiga RGB's SCART straight into my SCART to HDMI converter box, taking the HDMI out from that into the AGPTek usb recorder, and using the HDMI Out from there to go into my TV, so I can see what I'm playing. It's a working solution which I'm fairly happy with, but I notice a bit of visual noise on the result. Any thoughts on that?

Also, the icing on the cake would be if I could plug my Amiga RGB/SCART into a SCART junction, from which I could choose either to go direct to my TV, or when I wanted to record, in the direction of the AGPTek.

I see "SCART Splitters" advertised, but from I can tell they're actually SCART Joiners where you choose whether you want a VTR or DVD player going to the TV. Is there a solution I can get that goes from one SCART, to two Out SCARTS?

[Daedalus]

That noise looks like noise from power rails on the analogue video signals, potentially because of poor grounding or shielding, or could be a poor PSU in some part of the chain generating excess noise on a power rail. On the whole it doesn't look too bad though.

If the SCART switcher is passive, it will work in either direction.

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Angus

It's a working solution which I'm fairly happy with, but I notice a bit of visual noise on the result. Any thoughts on that?

It looks like you uploading video to YT with 640x480 - noise may be related to insufficient bitrate allocated by YT for SD videos - i think even YT recommend to upscale video to at least HD resolution so to force YT encoding to higher bitrate. Perhaps 1280x960 or 1920x1440. Have no clue about your HW configuration but you can encode video in HW so only upload time will be longer.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

That noise looks like noise from power rails on the analogue video signals, potentially because of poor grounding or shielding, or could be a poor PSU in some part of the chain generating excess noise on a power rail. On the whole it doesn't look too bad though.

If the SCART switcher is passive, it will work in either direction.

Passive as in not powered? Excuse my ignorance.


If I got a lead that took the Amiga RGB and split the signal 2 ways, would that degrade the signal, thus making a switchable option the better choice?





@Pandy Thanks, but I believe the issue was present on screen, before uploading.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Angus

Passive as in not powered? Excuse my ignorance.

Yep, switchboxes generally work in one of two ways. Either an unpowered, mechanical switch (passive) or an electronically-controlled, powered switch (active). Mechanical switches will work in any direction as they simply make or break electrical connections. Electronic switches might or might not work in both directions, it's entirely down to how they're designed so you won't know until you try it.

If I got a lead that took the Amiga RGB and split the signal 2 ways, would that degrade the signal, thus making a switchable option the better choice?

There are a couple of factors involved, but in general, yes, there's a good chance the signal strength would be reduced, resulting in a darker image and potentially other issues too.

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Angus

@Pandy Thanks, but I believe the issue was present on screen, before uploading.

TBH i saw only ringing around edges - classic Gibbs effect - too small bitrate.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by pandy71

TBH i saw only ringing around edges - classic Gibbs effect - too small bitrate.

Funnily enough, it looked to me as if Youtube had "smoothed" out the issue, albeit through a reduction of clarity, I guess. Still, it's an ill wind and all that.

[Angus]

Okay, got some bits and pieces from Ebay.....

So now I take the RGB out of the Amiga on the normal SCART lead.

This plugs into a female to female connector....

the other side of which connects to the male lead from a 2 way SCART splitter.

The original idea was to have one of these SCARTs from the Splitter going to the TV and one to the Scart to HDMI/AGPTek Capture box

The trouble is if I connect to the TV via the SCART I get a moving ghosted image of "No Channels Tuned" from the TV which is a bit weird, and very unwanted. So the TV is outputing this message as if I was trying to watch digital TV stations, which I'm not.

If I don't connect the SCART to the TV, I can monitor things via the AGPTek's HDMI out (to the TV HDMI).

That's okay, and solves the ghosted image but I'm seeing my dream of a decent quality and quick and convenient (minimal setting up) capture method fade somewhat. :-)

I need to do a bit more experimenting with when I just want to play a game, with no Capture kit involved. :-/

[Angus]

I was thinking of ways I could easily switch from general play mode to capture mode, in order to avoid that ghosted backwash text I mentioned in my previous post.

It seemed like disconnecting one so I could do the other was the obvious but inconvenient solution, then fairly sure that it wouldn't help, I thought I'd try sending my Amiga's RGB-SCART not to AV3 but to AV2 (which is supposedly smart and able to output, but will not output my Amiga signal). The default setting was horribly ghosted but when I set it on the on-screen options to AUTO I got a pretty nice result. To be clear, this is not what I'm recording it's what I'm seeing direct from the Amiga.

The recorded result was also pretty good, I think. Still no idea what's actually going on and why these arrangements are giving a better result.

[ Show youtube player ]

[Havie]

I found a cheap (in a charity shop) external recording box that allowed recording to usb via AV or HDMI which seemed to work ok from my 1200 via composite and Vampire 1200 HDMI. Which I then downloaded to the PC and uploaded to YouTube:

HDMI: [ Show youtube player ]

Although the video I took the other day, I just did through my phone and it uploaded straight to YouYube with no fuss. Not the greatest quality but served it's purpose. So depending on what you

[ Show youtube player ]

Proper set up with a tripod might have helped though!

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Havie

Although the video I took the other day, I just did through my phone and it uploaded straight to YouYube with no fuss. Not the greatest quality but served it's purpose. So depending on what you

[ Show youtube player ]

Proper set up with a tripod might have helped though!

Looks steadier than my handheld stuff, and if I'm trying to play at the same time, forget it.

[Angus]

I am currently waiting for a couple of SCART leads. I did some more research and discovered I may be able to eliminate the "backwash" aka crosstalk where I'm seeing a very faint display of a TV channel superimposed on my Amiga display, by removing pin 19 of the SCART lead.

I attempted to do this by taking a gentle and methodical approach of dismantling the plug and pulling the pin back out of the socket. Unfortunately, I could not get the pug back together afterwards in such a way that it held the surrounding shield captive, instead it slides about making proper insertion impossible (at least fro me).

When I get a replacement I will take the brute force and ignorance approach.