HOL v3 Launch

[TCD]

Originally Posted by modrobert

Still, a lot people seem to use "oldhol", which has no redirect.

That's because it links to the old HOL.

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by TCD

That's because it links to the old HOL.

What links to old HOL?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by modrobert

What links to old HOL?

https://oldhol.abime.net

[nujack]

I’m still using old.hol till today because the new page isn‘t really usable on my phone and that‘s where I use the page normally (and of course on my classic Amigas).
Without accessing my new content in old.hol I’ve stopped my contributions. It‘s so sad to see what happened to the project.
Why not build a wrapper to update old.hol with new content automatically? Would it be possible to update old.hol manually from time to time if some people would do the work? I would be happy to volunteer.

[CodyJarrett]

Originally Posted by nujack

I’m still using old.hol till today because the new page isn‘t really usable on my phone and that‘s where I use the page normally (and of course on my classic Amigas).

The new version is designed to run on mobiles as well on desktops. If there's a problem preventing the site working on your phone then please submit a bug report. I am planning a retro skin for classic Amigas when I have some time.

Originally Posted by nujack

Without accessing my new content in old.hol I’ve stopped my contributions. It‘s so sad to see what happened to the project.
Why not build a wrapper to update old.hol with new content automatically? Would it be possible to update old.hol manually from time to time if some people would do the work? I would be happy to volunteer.

The old version is just a temporary version and will be retired at some point.

[nujack]

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

The new version is designed to run on mobiles as well on desktops. If there's a problem preventing the site working on your phone then please submit a bug report. I am planning a retro skin for classic Amigas when I have some time.

It runs on mobile phones from a technical point of view but the useability is crap. The new frontend is fine for big screens but on small displays you have to scroll too much to get access to the related information. Compared to the old.hol where you get all information and menus presented on one screen in a clean, structured way it's now a big disadvantage and pain for my fingers. Furthermore it's not running smooth on my classic Amigas anymore.
A classic skin might help, but I've been waiting so long for it and I'm not sure if it will be released soon.

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

The old version is just a temporary version and will be retired at some point.

That would be really bad because I know some people that are still working with that solution. As long as the new HOL has more disadvantages for me and my needs I try to avoid it.

[modrobert]

I compared the page generation times between oldhol and hol.

hol:
Gen. in 0.13s https://amiga.abime.net/games/view/mega-typhoon

oldhol:
Gen. in 0.01s https://oldhol.abime.net/4862

Trying both force reloads and cached, it's a mix, and ballpark figures, between 10 - 20 times faster page generation from oldhol compared to new hol using the same browser (pc, connection, etc.).

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

I am planning a retro skin for classic Amigas when I have some time.

That would be great.

Originally Posted by nujack

I’m still using old.hol till today because the new page isn‘t really usable on my phone and that‘s where I use the page normally (and of course on my classic Amigas).
Without accessing my new content in old.hol I’ve stopped my contributions. It‘s so sad to see what happened to the project.
Why not build a wrapper to update old.hol with new content automatically? Would it be possible to update old.hol manually from time to time if some people would do the work? I would be happy to volunteer.

Sad to read that you stop contributing, but maybe a retro skin that works with classic hardware will be fine on your phone as well?

[nujack]

Originally Posted by modrobert

Sad to read that you stop contributing, but maybe a retro skin that works with classic hardware will be fine on your phone as well?

Yes but I'm really disappointed how the changes were done and hope for further improvements in useability and speed and less featurerities. The old.hol frontend was perfect from my point of view.

[CodyJarrett]

Originally Posted by nujack

It runs on mobile phones from a technical point of view but the useability is crap. The new frontend is fine for big screens but on small displays you have to scroll too much to get access to the related information. Compared to the old.hol where you get all information and menus presented on one screen in a clean, structured way it's now a big disadvantage and pain for my fingers.

The usability is not "crap" and is much improved over the old interface which was designed pre-smart mobile phones and where you have to zoom in and scroll around to see the information. The old HOL had a long DBS screenshot at the top and this is now split so that the screens can be displayed in portrait.

There is a lot of information to display so it's difficult to do this without any scrolling at all. I will try to reduce the size of the interface elements and the font without making it too small to see.

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

The usability is not "crap" and is much improved over the old interface which was designed pre-smart mobile phones and where you have to zoom in and scroll around to see the information. The old HOL had a long DBS screenshot at the top and this is now split so that the screens can be displayed in portrait.

I think the usability is fine with new hol, mainly because it puts the information in focus rather than design elements; "to the point". Although, like someone else pointed out, I do miss the #-Z letter browsing thing, when you are looking for something to play (hmm, maybe a "I'm feeling lucky" option to the search similar to google would be a good idea, random title). Also compatibility with old Amiga browsers as mentioned.

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

There is a lot of information to display so it's difficult to do this without any scrolling at all. I will try to reduce the size of the interface elements and the font without making it too small to see.

Can't you make it easy and have the classic skin fixed horizontally in low resolution like in the old days (e.g. 800x600 CRT screens)? On classic hardware it will be fine as pixels are bigger, on the phone, well, at least it will be less scrolling with small font even if a bit tiny for pleasant reading, as long as the skin is optional.

[Octopus66]

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

The old version is just a temporary version and will be retired at some point.

[nujack]

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

The usability is not "crap" and is much improved over the old interface which was designed pre-smart mobile phones and where you have to zoom in and scroll around to see the information. The old HOL had a long DBS screenshot at the top and this is now split so that the screens can be displayed in portrait.

There is a lot of information to display so it's difficult to do this without any scrolling at all. I will try to reduce the size of the interface elements and the font without making it too small to see.

Not in my opinion. To get access to the information that is selected via menu I have to scroll each time because of the big DBS screenshot and higher resolution. In the old.hol I select a menu-point like screenshot or review and I see most of the content without scrolling away.
To scroll each time between menu-point and content is not an improvement and makes it more or less unusable on mobile phones.

[dreadnought]

I miss the old HoL visuals a lot, but on desktop it was also definitely better usability-wise. There are too many empty spaces now and yet it feels like less info is being displayed. Also, stuff like WHDL details being in the main tab is confusing - most casual users will probably mistake the WHDL Authors for real devs/artists Credits, at least at first glance.

I don't care much about mobile, looks all right to me and I wouldn't use it for any serious research/work anyway. But desktop is different kettle of fish. Is there no way to keep mobile mostly as-is and have the option for oldhol layout & functionality on desktop?

[TCH]

It's not just the mobile phones: older browsers cannot handle the new site either. Not just because the new CSS commands, but the new site is also very heavyweighted; way too much JS.

But, as i see in this topic it must be quite heavyweighted on the server-side too.

[malko]

Originally Posted by codyjarrett

[...] The old version is just a temporary version and will be retired at some point.

+1 for the
After almost 6 month of use now, I have to say that "oldHOL" has my preference, so really hope a lightweight old skin in the true spirit of the oldHOL will be available for the "newHOL" .

[modrobert]

Originally Posted by malko

+1 for the
After almost 6 month of use now, I have to say that "oldHOL" has my preference, so really hope a lightweight old skin in the true spirit of the oldHOL will be available for the "newHOL" .

Yesterday I went to pouet.net to check out an Amiga demo, that site is oldschool in a really good way (personal opinion). They have a "Pouet" logo at the top of the page where users can contribute their own logos (I've done that as well, even if mine sucks in comparison), and they randomly show the user contributed ones.

There are a lot of great artists doing wonders with DPaint (and the likes) right here in the Amiga community, so was thinking, maybe we can turn this classic skin of HOL into something really awesome by allowing user contributed designs, logos and more? Something worthy of the number one Amiga games library, memorable, and inspiring. I'm trying to look at this as an opportunity to make things even better than they were.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by malko

+1 for the
After almost 6 month of use now, I have to say that "oldHOL" has my preference, so really hope a lightweight old skin in the true spirit of the oldHOL will be available for the "newHOL" .

It's not a skin though, it's a completely new layout and design. Whatever Cody might cook up, it's going to look a lot like what is there now.

But it's going to be less blue, and that'll make me unpucker for sure

[malko]

Originally Posted by gimbal

It's not a skin though, it's a completely new layout and design. Whatever Cody might cook up, it's going to look a lot like what is there now.

But it's going to be less blue, and that'll make me unpucker for sure

The engine behind the site is different, but I was speaking about the layout (what is displayed to the user), so I hope Cody will be able to layout newHOL to something really close (to identical) to oldHOL as I understood they will not return to the old engine. I would be surprised if it was not possible to layout a site the way you want... Is the actual newHOL site layout closed in a way it cannot be adapted to the user's wishes ?
I don't say it will be made easily bit I am convinced it can be done.

[TCH]

Off: @malko, can i ask which game or demo your avatar is from?

[malko]

Originally Posted by TCH

Off: @malko, can i ask which game or demo your avatar is from?

Of course. It's from "Stryx" game intro (Psyclapse/Psygnosis) : https://oldhol.abime.net/2157