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Old 02 December 2017, 11:04   #1
john4p
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EAB/Lemon Super League Changes #1: Cast Your Votes!

Round 1: League Points Scoring

Vote for the scoring method we will use in the 2018 Super League.
The voting starts now and will end Saturday 9th December, 23:59 UK Time.
Vote for your choices, rank them 0-3, 3 being the best option.
Your first choice gets 3 points, second 2pts, third 1pt, fourth gets zero points.
Post your votes on this thread, or PM one of the moderators.
Edited votes will be discounted - so think before you post.
Tactical or nosey voters can see the Lemon voting thread HERE.


Here we go then. As discussed here and on Lemon, it seems a number of people aren't opposed to change the scoring system to remedy some of the problems the current one has.

These four choices are the options of the way we want to go, the specifics of which are listed below. Here's what the four choices represent:

No Change
The current system based on current method

75/25
Points based on 75% Fixed, and 25% Proportional to your score.

Fixed-26
A Fixed scale which decreases by one point for each new player.

Super 7
A combination of Fixed and Proportional scoring methods.


Here are two examples of the systems compared to help you decide:






Specifications:

No Change
The option for No Change means we keep the current system. The current system is 50% based on score and 50% fixed, thus a 50/50-option. This is how the current 50/50-system works. Championship points will be given to all who compete, based on a fixed set of numbers, with bonus points on top depending on how competitive your score is. The fixed numbers are:

1st = 10 pts
2nd = 8 pts
3rd = 7 pts
4th = 6 pts
5th = 5 pts
6th = 4 pts
7th = 3 pts
8th = 2.4 pts
9th = 2.2 pts
10th = 2 pts
Lower= 1 pts

+ Bonus Points calculated as 10*(your_score/best_score). Winner gets 10 points everyone else gets a proportion of that amount.


The current system means that the higher you score, the more you are rewarded - both directly with points, but also undirectly by gaining more points gaps to others. As you continue to improve your score, your performance will increase your points overall, but it could also decrease the points of the players behind you, protecting your position. Your points are based on how close you are to the leaders score. So if you are competitive, this is the system which offers the most for those players who can keep up with the leader, and those who cant will be given a lower share of the points, based on how far they made it through the game. So token scores will be awarded token points.



75/25

This option is similar to the current system. The difference is that it would be based on a 75% fixed system, and 25% based on scores. The fixed numbers are:

1st = 15 pts
2nd = 13 pts
3rd = 11 pts
4th = 10 pts
5th = 9 pts
6th = 8 pts
7th = 7 pts
8th = 6 pts
9th = 5 pts
10th = 4 pts
11th = 3 pts
12th = 2 pts
Lower = 1 pt

+ Bonus Points calculated as 5*(your_score/best_score). Winner gets 5 points everyone else gets a proportion of that amount.


The 75/25 system would be more balanced than the current system, with a larger spread of fixed scores, and only 25% of the total based on your score compared to the leader. It is meant to be a half-way house between the current system (which favours the top players), and the Fixed-26 system (which favours the top 17) as it favours the top 14 players. The gaps to points would benefit from the more fixed structure, while still rewarding some points advantage to those who scored more. Some of the disadvantages of the current system may also be lessened.

As proven by Biscuit the system doesn't seem to work well for many players though.



Fixed-26

The Fixed-26 system awards points based on where a player is on a fixed table. Compared to the current system, it spreads ten extra points through the table, so the top player would 30 points instead of 20. The fixed numbers are:

1st = 30 pts
2nd = 27 pts
3rd = 25 pts
4th = 23 pts
5th = 22 pts
6th = 21 pts
7th = 20 pts
8th = 19 pts
9th = 18 pts
10th = 17 pts
11th = 16 pts
12th = 15 pts
13th = 14 pts
14th = 13 pts
15th = 12 pts
16th = 11 pts
17th = 10 pts
18th = 9 pts
19th = 8 pts
20th = 7 pts
21th = 6 pts
22th = 5 pts
23th = 4 pts
24th = 3 pts
25th = 2 pts
26th = 1 pts
Lower= 1 pts

Comparing the numbers to the current system, we see much more score available for those in the mid and top end of the table, and the points gaps between positions remain the same all the way down the table. There is also no risk of your points being affected by players above you posting new scores during the round.

Fixed-26 also means no more points sharing. On the Apidya leaderboard, it is noticable that 13th down to 18th position all got the same 3 points. This meant it was possible to get better positions with no increase in score. With Fixed-26, there is always the guarantee of points as long as you gain a position.

The catch-up scenario is also greater with Fixed-26. For example, with the current system, 10th place gives 5 points - which means you need 15 points to match the leader and catch up. Which means you would need to get 3rd or 4th realistically in the next round to get those 15 points back. With Fixed-26 you get 17 points for 10th place finish, which is 13 points from the leader. To get those 13 points back, you would need to finish 14th or higher in the next round. So instead of having to fight to get into the top 5 players to get back those points back, you would only need to finish in 14th place - which is worse than the 10th place you scored in this round.



Super 7

The Super 7 system awards points based on a fixed set of numbers for the top 7 players, and 8th place and below get points proportionally to the 7th place's score. Hence the name Super 7. The fixed numbers are:

1st = 20 pts
2nd = 17 pts
3rd = 15 pts
4th = 13 pts
5th = 12 pts
6th = 11 pts
7th = 10 pts

For everyone else, if their score is 90% of the 7th place's score or better they get the full 10 points, just like 7th place itself. Or they will get a proportion of points based on how close the score was to 7th. And if their score is less than 10% of the 7th place's score, they get 1 point.

90% or better = 10 pts
80% or better = 9 pts
70% or better = 8 pts
60% or better = 7 pts
50% or better = 6 pts
40% or better = 5 pts
30% or better = 4 pts
20% or better = 3 pts
10% or better = 2 pts
less than 10% = 1 pts

The Super 7 system makes sure the points for the top 7 players are fixed, so that the points gaps are maintained. The same system could be applied to 9 or 10 places instead of 7, so should this system get the vote, we will hold another vote to find out if players would prefer 7,8,9, or 10.

The Super 7 systems means the top players are protected in score, and always get what they deserve above the people who posted lower scores or token tries. Compared to the current system with Super 7 there would be more players able to get closer to 10 points. 7th place would award 10 points, which is half the score, and ten points less than the leader.

The proportional aspect of the table means it is flexible, and allows for more than 26 players to take part, whilst keeping the top score to 20 points. So this is a true half-way house between the benefits of a fixed system, and also the flexibility of a proportional system. [/quote]



Options:

So choose your preference, discuss, ask questions for the next week and we'll take it from there. Please ONLY vote on this or the EAB thread though, NOT BOTH so it doesn't distort the results. Thanks!


Example vote:

1. No change
2. 75/25
3. Fixed-26
4. Super 7


All 2017 players are welcome to vote and chat at anytime.

Last edited by john4p; 11 December 2017 at 13:32.
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Old 02 December 2017, 13:23   #2
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On the discussion thread you mention votes could look as follows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by john4p
We've decided to let you rate the four systems 50/50 (current system), 75/25, Fixed-26 and Super 7 between 0 and 3 points each.
A vote could look like this:

50/50: 3
75/25: 1
Fixed-26: 3
Super 7: 0
But the post above suggests votes need to be fixed order 4-3-2-1.. which way is correct method? (hopefully the first way..)
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Old 02 December 2017, 15:13   #3
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I had just copied the text from lifeschool (mostly).

Yeah I'd prefer to do the votes as previously announced.
We shouldn't force people to give points to a system they dislike.

I'll edit the description again.
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Old 02 December 2017, 15:34   #4
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Cool thanks mate, well in that case I have already decide my vote

No change - 0
75/25 - 0
Fixed - 3
Super - 2
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Old 02 December 2017, 17:06   #5
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Ok everyone. Welcome to the vote. This work very much like the mystery round, in that you must rank the options in the order of which to vote. 1st gets 3 points, 2nd gets 2 points, 3rd gets one point. Your forth options gets zero points (and is the option you DONT want to see voted).

A good example would be:

1. 50/50: 3
2. Fixed-26: 2
3. 75/25: 1
4. Super 7: 0

I noticed John posted those odd voting numbers, and to be honest I could not work out what they were supposed to mean, so on the Lemon thread it was changed to the above example.

John PMd me to say he changed some of the 75/25 figures, although I suppose he means the example image, as I cant see any changed to the 75/25 formula. He also added the line about Biscuit proving a certain system doesnt work. Each option is proven, otherwise we would not have it listed as an option.

@ Ed-209 - in your example, No change gets 3, 75/25 2 points and Fixed-26 would get 1. Do you want to change your vote?, and this time please rank them 1-4 as usual. You can PM one of the mods with your choices, or vote openly on the thread.

Last edited by lifeschool; 02 December 2017 at 20:32.
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Old 02 December 2017, 17:32   #6
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Okay, since both Graham & lifeschool prefer it we'll vote

1. 3pts
2. 2pts
3. 1pt
4. 0pts

after all.

Thus please give either no change or 75/25 a point, ED!
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Old 02 December 2017, 18:28   #7
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Maybe we should vote on the 'voting system' first?

1. Fixed
2. Super
3. 75/25
4. 50/50
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Old 02 December 2017, 18:37   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeschool View Post
this is a biased opinion designed to bias the vote
Damn it almost worked.. you may as well send my money back john
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Old 02 December 2017, 19:17   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ED-209 View Post
Damn it almost worked.. you may as well send my money back john
Well, it was worth a try.

Tbh., for a while I was favoring 75/25 until Biscuit ran some tests. Problem is that there are only 12 fixed positions in this plus the bonus points are 0 if you're below 20% of the 1st place's score. In our current 50/50-system you get a bonus point if you have 10% of the 1st place's score. This leads to our current system often being more advantageous for the bottom of the table than 75/25 when there are many people playing (see Apidya).
For average participation 75/25 works well though.
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Old 02 December 2017, 22:12   #10
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I only participated in a few rounds last year, plan to be more active in 2018. If I can vote:

1 - Super-7 : 3 pts
2 - Fixed-21: 2 pts
3 - 50/50 : 1pt
40 - 75/25 : 0pt
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Old 03 December 2017, 10:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
If I can vote:
Of course, thanks for your vote!

Last edited by john4p; 06 December 2017 at 11:36.
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Old 06 December 2017, 11:37   #12
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Here's my vote:

1. Super 7
2. Fixed-26
3. No change
4. 75/25


Only 3 days left to vote!

Last edited by john4p; 06 December 2017 at 16:09.
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Old 08 December 2017, 00:49   #13
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1. Super 7
2. No change
3. 75/25
4. Fixed
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Old 08 December 2017, 10:12   #14
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1. Fixed
2. 75/25
3. No change
4. Super 7
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Old 08 December 2017, 14:28   #15
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1. Fixed-26
2. Super 7
3. No change
4. 75/25
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Old 10 December 2017, 11:39   #16
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Voting's over, these are the results:

1. Super 7 - 33pts
2. Fixed-26 - 26pts
3. No change - 11pts
4. 75/25 - 8pts

So the decision has been made: we'll use the Super-system.
The 7 isn't final yet though.
In the next week you'll be given the option to tweak the system further: besides Super 7 you can also vote for Super 5 and Super 10.
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Old 10 December 2017, 11:54   #17
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Well a Super system for a Super League seems fitting, does it not
Super 10 ftw!
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Old 10 December 2017, 12:01   #18
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Haha, never noticed that. Surely fits well!
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