AmigaOS 3.1.4 withdrawn from market after Amiga - Page 9

Wayne123 · 30 October 2018, 20:04

Is there really enough money in old Amiga tech to make all this legal drama worthwhile?
I like my Amigas but they are just toys at this point and I have no real need for upgraded KS roms anyway.

krautguy · 30 October 2018, 20:11

What i do not understand is - and this is an honest question - why could anyone be happy if Hyperion looses in this case?

This document posted above states that Amiga Inc. demands the revenues that Hyperion got through selling 3.1.4. So my money would be handed over to a company that didnt sell anything and even did not develop a similar or competing version of this product.

You all say, the developers had given their work to hyperion without a payment, but as a result this money wouldn't go to them either. That makes no sense, i cannot be happy if any of the involved companies would be "punished" for whatever.

Romanujan · 30 October 2018, 20:36

The money didn't go to developers/testers, because they agreed to work on OS 3.1.4 for free. All the revenues went to Hyperion. Or they will go to Amiga, Inc. Or to lawyers.

The team doesn't even have any PayPal donation system, or anything like that - and I'm definitely not happy about this.

Samurai_Crow · 30 October 2018, 20:45

One can only hope that if Hyperion is defeated that their assets will be liquidated and can be purchased by the other party involved. If that's Cloanto, then great. They'll start selling the stuff like they've been doing all along or maybe not.

gulliver · 30 October 2018, 21:05

Hyperion does not need any money to sue Cloanto and friends.

The money could go somewhere else:

Wouldn´t it be cool to ask Hyperion and Olaf to negotiate a RoadShow 68k license for the next AmigaOS 68k version? I would really like that, and think it would be a valuable addition to the OS. Of course this involves money going to Olaf, but since some is being made, it could potentially become a reality.

Of course, this is my personal idea, nothing more. But seems not so far fetched from my point of view.

Romanujan · 30 October 2018, 21:12

Well, I have already purchased RoadShow license - unless there are some improvements, I don't need another one, included within the OS. And I suppose not everyone has a network device attached to the Amiga.

gulliver · 30 October 2018, 21:14

Fair point.

But then, what would you think would be a good acquisition to enhance the OS?
Imagine for a minute it was up to you to choose.

Romanujan · 30 October 2018, 21:42

Honestly, I can't think of anything. I would rather see the AmigaOS to keep improving it's components, not to grow with acquired elements, which would need maintenance. There is a lot of things, that can be improved:

- text.datatype (and amigaguide.datatype) could have 'find' and 'copy to clipboard' functions, like in OS 3.9
- colorwheel.gadgets and gradientslider.gadgets are inferior to OS 3.9 counterparts on HiColor/TrueColor screens
- system utilities (Prefs, calculator, Exchange, etc.) could honor font settings, instead of using Topaz
- GhostBuster functionality could be implemented into Workbench
- sound.datatype, while playing sample via Multiview, still displays this 3.1 era icon, it could at least be configurable, or... have you seen the visualization from Stephen Rupprecht alternative sound.datatype?
- it would be nice if T: and CLIPS: could be located on a separate RAM disk(s), which would prevent accidental deletions while working with RAM:
- scsi.device/filesystem could support TRIM command (not sure, if it is possible)
- there could be a device-level or filesystem-level cache (like SmartDRV from M$-DOS)
- console could have KingCON-style tab autocompletion
- Installer could gain missing OS 3.9 features
- AddBuffers syntax could be improved (again, look at Stephen Rupprecht alternative)

... and so on. This is the kind of development I would be happy to see.

gulliver · 30 October 2018, 21:45

Many of those items are on the TODO list already.

Mr.Flibble · 30 October 2018, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanujan

Yea, for sure they will fix this: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1PCGwJYRtX5wi6JwFK7DSRYcjRQLaUS4k/edit

That actually makes for some very interesting reading!

These are some particularly interesting points, this one in particular seems to match up with Hyperion's actions in making a land-grab for Amiga OS <4.0..

Quote:

33. Upon information and belief, Hyperion’s former director, current major shareholder, and in-house counsel, Benjamin Hermans, has bragged to various people that he tricked the Amiga Parties by including language in the Settlement Agreement that would later allow him to claim broader rights than the Amiga Parties intended to give Hyperion.

Ouch!

bitter · 30 October 2018, 22:23

Coming from C64 scene, the Amiga world is quite a sh!t show... There is just enough money to be made for lawyers to be involved, and here we have the result. Simply unbelievable how the curse of mismanagement of Commodore continues to follow the Amiga through iteration after iteration.

NorthWay · 30 October 2018, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanujan

But why Hyperion and Cloanto can't came to some kind of agreement

I'm guessing clash of culture. Which might also point as to why 3.1.4 devs have aligned themselves along the Hyperion axis: IMO there is a faint whiff of Cloanto not necessarily insisting on a strict closed source model - they might be happy to let others do the work for them (no, I'm not really thinking of 3.1.4 here - that is above and beyond any expectation) and just sell QA checked and tested distributions (if you can imagine a read-only source repository). But they would still need to accept and evaluate patches, and preferably also be able to do future planning.
Pragmatism could point out that however illegal the 3.1 source leak is, it has nevertheless happened, and people have probably gained insights.

kolla · 30 October 2018, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

Wouldn´t it be cool to ask Hyperion and Olaf to negotiate a RoadShow 68k license for the next AmigaOS 68k version?

Wouldn't it be cool if Roadshow in OS4 could be updated to the levels of RoadShow 68k, instead of having to linger and wait for other OS updates and for Hyperion to be bothered to put together a release?

Do you want this to be the situation for 68k too?
No - RoadShow is better off unattached to the OS.

I would much more prefer that the rest of AmigaOS would go the way of Roadshow - split it up into individual components, maintained independently by the individual developers or parties, partly open source, partly closed source when needed.

kolla · 30 October 2018, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanujan

- colorwheel.gadgets and gradientslider.gadgets are inferior to OS 3.9 counterparts on HiColor/TrueColor screens

And where did these come from again?

Romanujan · 30 October 2018, 23:14

Set the screen color depth to TrueColor or HighColor. Go to Prefs, open Palette. There is a very well visible difference between OS 3.9 and OS 3.1.4.

ExiE · 30 October 2018, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

Many of those items are on the TODO list already.

And is that TODO list still valid? Such legal mumbo jumbo could frustrate all the devs...

kolla · 30 October 2018, 23:24

@Romanujan
No, what I meant was...
http://aros.sourceforge.net/document...-haage-partner

dlfrsilver · 30 October 2018, 23:43

Ok, i've read the court document. Hyperion is accused to have breached trademarks of Amiga, and AmigaOS 3.1.4 has been declared as illegal !

sean_sk · 31 October 2018, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

https://www.amigafuture.de/viewtopic.php?t=44329

Great letter! Too bad it is falling on the deaf ears of people who care no more about the community they're selling too than the dirt they walk on.

malko · 31 October 2018, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

https://www.amigafuture.de/viewtopic.php?t=44329

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_skroht

Great letter! [...]

30 October 2018, 20:11	#162
krautguy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Berlin Posts: 14	What i do not understand is - and this is an honest question - why could anyone be happy if Hyperion looses in this case? This document posted above states that Amiga Inc. demands the revenues that Hyperion got through selling 3.1.4. So my money would be handed over to a company that didnt sell anything and even did not develop a similar or competing version of this product. You all say, the developers had given their work to hyperion without a payment, but as a result this money wouldn't go to them either. That makes no sense, i cannot be happy if any of the involved companies would be "punished" for whatever. Last edited by krautguy; 30 October 2018 at 20:12. Reason: improved spelling/language

30 October 2018, 20:36	#163
Romanujan Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szczecin/Poland Posts: 424	The money didn't go to developers/testers, because they agreed to work on OS 3.1.4 for free. All the revenues went to Hyperion. Or they will go to Amiga, Inc. Or to lawyers. The team doesn't even have any PayPal donation system, or anything like that - and I'm definitely not happy about this. Last edited by Romanujan; 30 October 2018 at 20:37. Reason: grammar correction

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30 October 2018, 20:04	#161
Wayne123 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: So. California, USA Age: 64 Posts: 62	Is there really enough money in old Amiga tech to make all this legal drama worthwhile? I like my Amigas but they are just toys at this point and I have no real need for upgraded KS roms anyway.

30 October 2018, 20:45	#164
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,187	One can only hope that if Hyperion is defeated that their assets will be liquidated and can be purchased by the other party involved. If that's Cloanto, then great. They'll start selling the stuff like they've been doing all along or maybe not.

30 October 2018, 21:05	#165
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	Hyperion does not need any money to sue Cloanto and friends. The money could go somewhere else: Wouldn´t it be cool to ask Hyperion and Olaf to negotiate a RoadShow 68k license for the next AmigaOS 68k version? I would really like that, and think it would be a valuable addition to the OS. Of course this involves money going to Olaf, but since some is being made, it could potentially become a reality. Of course, this is my personal idea, nothing more. But seems not so far fetched from my point of view.

30 October 2018, 21:12	#166
Romanujan Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szczecin/Poland Posts: 424	Well, I have already purchased RoadShow license - unless there are some improvements, I don't need another one, included within the OS. And I suppose not everyone has a network device attached to the Amiga.

30 October 2018, 21:14	#167
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	Fair point. But then, what would you think would be a good acquisition to enhance the OS? Imagine for a minute it was up to you to choose.

30 October 2018, 21:42	#168
Romanujan Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szczecin/Poland Posts: 424	Honestly, I can't think of anything. I would rather see the AmigaOS to keep improving it's components, not to grow with acquired elements, which would need maintenance. There is a lot of things, that can be improved: - text.datatype (and amigaguide.datatype) could have 'find' and 'copy to clipboard' functions, like in OS 3.9 - colorwheel.gadgets and gradientslider.gadgets are inferior to OS 3.9 counterparts on HiColor/TrueColor screens - system utilities (Prefs, calculator, Exchange, etc.) could honor font settings, instead of using Topaz - GhostBuster functionality could be implemented into Workbench - sound.datatype, while playing sample via Multiview, still displays this 3.1 era icon, it could at least be configurable, or... have you seen the visualization from Stephen Rupprecht alternative sound.datatype? - it would be nice if T: and CLIPS: could be located on a separate RAM disk(s), which would prevent accidental deletions while working with RAM: - scsi.device/filesystem could support TRIM command (not sure, if it is possible) - there could be a device-level or filesystem-level cache (like SmartDRV from M$-DOS) - console could have KingCON-style tab autocompletion - Installer could gain missing OS 3.9 features - AddBuffers syntax could be improved (again, look at Stephen Rupprecht alternative) ... and so on. This is the kind of development I would be happy to see.

30 October 2018, 21:45	#169
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	Many of those items are on the TODO list already.

30 October 2018, 22:23	#171
bitter Registered User Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Fort Mill, SC, US Posts: 83	Coming from C64 scene, the Amiga world is quite a sh!t show... There is just enough money to be made for lawyers to be involved, and here we have the result. Simply unbelievable how the curse of mismanagement of Commodore continues to follow the Amiga through iteration after iteration.

30 October 2018, 23:14	#175
Romanujan Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Szczecin/Poland Posts: 424	Set the screen color depth to TrueColor or HighColor. Go to Prefs, open Palette. There is a very well visible difference between OS 3.9 and OS 3.1.4.

30 October 2018, 23:24	#177
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	@Romanujan No, what I meant was... http://aros.sourceforge.net/document...-haage-partner

30 October 2018, 23:43	#178
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,421	Ok, i've read the court document. Hyperion is accused to have breached trademarks of Amiga, and AmigaOS 3.1.4 has been declared as illegal !

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