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Old 23 October 2019, 10:04   #141
Steril707
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Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
There is no way in hell that this is a 16-bit specification, sounds more like 32-bit. This even exceeds the SNES, for crying out loud! As a result, 16- to 32-bit is not a fair comparison.

I don't care about your Japanese machine, I will stand by my rose-tinted belief that Jay Miner hardware will always be the best, most elegant, and versatile in the world.
It was for the year it was developed and released.

It's just that other companies didn't sleep, and created good stuff afterwards as well.
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:04   #142
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Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
There is no way in hell that this is a 16-bit specification, sounds more like 32-bit. This even exceeds the SNES, for crying out loud! As a result, 16- to 32-bit is not a fair comparison.

I don't care about your Japanese machine, I will stand by my rose-tinted belief that Jay Miner hardware will always be the best, most elegant, and versatile in the world.
Yes, that is why the x68000 had perfect arcade ports and the SNES did not. It is a beast of machine.

But get this! The Japanese were jealous of westerners for having the Amiga.

Particularly with the demo scene and in ray-tracing. They complained, for example, that a lot of the things the Amiga could do in demos with its integrated chipset would have all had to be performed on the CPU on the X68000.

There is an annual demo party here in Tokyo. Whenever someone's demo shows a cool effect, no matter the platform, the audience doesn't say "wow" or "oh my god." The thing to say is "amiga!"
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:15   #143
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Actually, I haven't asked. WHEN did the Sharp X68000 launch?
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:16   #144
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actually, i haven't asked. When did the sharp x68000 launch?
1987
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:17   #145
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1987
Well, that explains everything. Hardware improves the later it is released, for the most part. Good thing the base Amiga spec came out in 1985!
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:20   #146
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Check The Zone! then
Haha! Thanks but i meant the physical copy!


And all this talk about Amiga people and rose tinted glasses is pretty funny, when NOBODY owned a X68000 outside of Japan, and even then it was generally only rich Japanese kids who’s dads worked for high end corporations, much like the Neo-Geo, but at least that was well known worldwide, most people hadn’t heard of the machine let alone seen one including me and i bought gaming mags on a weekly basis in the 80s and 90s.

So having these comparisons now are pretty ridiculous seeing the markets they were aimed at and the prices of the machines, yes it has some almost perfect arcade ports (mainly because they were used as expensive development machines) but take those away and you left with alot of weird Japanese shit and more ports.

I’d easily rather have my Amiga back then every-time in an playground argument for its original games, i didn’t buy (well i swapped it for my Megadrive) the Amiga for its arcade ports, you would be insane to have done so, we get it! but if the only games the Amiga gets slagged for are arcade ports then that’s fine, we had dozens or other genres we had much more fun playing, the arcades were only a walk away to have a quick blast, or heck if you are comparing the X68000, i raise you a Amiga 500, Megadrive, SNES and Neo-Geo and still have plenty of change!
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:27   #147
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Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
There is no way in hell that this is a 16-bit specification
It is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane
This even exceeds the SNES, for crying out loud!
The X68000 annihilates the SNES! It was the basis for the Capcom CPS-1 arcade hardware!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane
I don't care about your Japanese machine, I will stand by my rose-tinted belief that Jay Miner hardware will always be the best, most elegant, and versatile in the world.
Well, that's a childish and incorrect belief. Yeah, the Amiga's a great machine, but better machines do exist.
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:30   #148
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NOBODY owned a X68000 outside of Japan, and even then it was generally only rich Japanese kids who’s dads worked for high end corporations, much like the Neo-Geo
My dad worked for Sharp's subsidiary in Jersey and I found out about and got my X68000 at a decent discount (we weren't rich) to put on the desk next to my a500.

I had way more fun than you!
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:36   #149
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Super famous japanese game designer Fumito Ueda (who made Ico, Shadow of he Collossus and The Last Guardian) was an Amiga fan as well... It was kind of his beginner machine for dabbling in game design and rendering.

Read here:
http://shmuplations.com/ueda/
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:38   #150
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Originally Posted by ruinashiro View Post
My dad worked for Sharp's subsidiary in Jersey and I found out about and got my X68000 at a decent discount (we weren't rich) to put on the desk next to my a500.

I had way more fun than you!
I doubt that, but whatever makes you feel happy.
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:39   #151
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I doubt that, but whatever makes you feel happy.
Double the systems, double the fun, obviously!
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Old 23 October 2019, 10:53   #152
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Double the systems, double the fun, obviously!
Ooh, my jealousy knows no bounds.

Well in hindsight anyway, at the time I didn't even know the X68000 existed. Heck I only learned about it this year I think thanks to port comparison videos.
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Old 23 October 2019, 11:07   #153
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Xenon 2 on X68000 is quite poor - it’s slower than the Amiga version and the music is kinda gimped
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Old 23 October 2019, 14:46   #154
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I hear the X68000 was very expensive even for the Japanese market. Konami released more games for the MSX and NES than for the X68000 for example, probably for this reason.

I agree the comparison is ridiculous, it wasn't me who brought the X68000 into the discussion

But the claim that the Amiga "Could do X68000 games without any difficulty" is even more ridiculous. The system was a Beast and its hardware trumped a lot of stuff that came later.

But yeah, I wouldn't change my A600 for an X68000. Well, maybe I would, if I could sell it, get an AGA machine and I'd still have some money left

-

I know a guy who owned an X68000 here in Brazil back at the day. Only one. He was the guy who was creating most of the amazing hardware for the MSX here (Created the first memory expansion before even the Japanese had something similar, and a kit to change an MSX 1 to MSX 2) and he claims back at the day he was making like US$1000 a DAY by producing that stuff so, yeah, he had plenty of money
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Old 23 October 2019, 17:20   #155
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There is no way in hell that this is a 16-bit specification, sounds more like 32-bit. This even exceeds the SNES, for crying out loud! As a result, 16- to 32-bit is not a fair comparison.
8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit? Is the Playstation 4 a 256-bit console then?

Please leave those arbitrary bits in the 90s playground where they belong.
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Old 23 October 2019, 17:31   #156
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Originally Posted by ruinashiro View Post
Yes, that is why the x68000 had perfect arcade ports and the SNES did not. It is a beast of machine.

But get this! The Japanese were jealous of westerners for having the Amiga.

Particularly with the demo scene and in ray-tracing. They complained, for example, that a lot of the things the Amiga could do in demos with its integrated chipset would have all had to be performed on the CPU on the X68000.

There is an annual demo party here in Tokyo. Whenever someone's demo shows a cool effect, no matter the platform, the audience doesn't say "wow" or "oh my god." The thing to say is "amiga!"

Incredible, I never knew that thanks for telling us all
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Old 23 October 2019, 18:00   #157
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Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
There is no way in hell that this is a 16-bit specification, sounds more like 32-bit. This even exceeds the SNES, for crying out loud! As a result, 16- to 32-bit is not a fair comparison.

I don't care about your Japanese machine, I will stand by my rose-tinted belief that Jay Miner hardware will always be the best, most elegant, and versatile in the world.
It is 16bit but using VRAM.

You can keep your rose-tinted glasses on:
Jay Miner's "Ranger" Chipset utilizing VRAM was done in 1987 and would have delivered a comparable power.
But Commodore was too stupid of course an no Amiga Chipset ever used VRAM.

(and that is just one of so many opportunities C= missed. They were lucky to last until 94...)
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Old 23 October 2019, 19:23   #158
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Yes, that is why the x68000 had perfect arcade ports and the SNES did not. It is a beast of machine.

But get this! The Japanese were jealous of westerners for having the Amiga.

Particularly with the demo scene and in ray-tracing. They complained, for example, that a lot of the things the Amiga could do in demos with its integrated chipset would have all had to be performed on the CPU on the X68000.

There is an annual demo party here in Tokyo. Whenever someone's demo shows a cool effect, no matter the platform, the audience doesn't say "wow" or "oh my god." The thing to say is "amiga!"
About the only thing the Amiga could do in hardware that the X68000 couldn't was line-drawing and fills in large bitmaps, plus some copper and blitter effects that made neat full-screen psychedelics but not very useful for games.

In practice, for games, the Amiga's blitter was mostly used for sprites to make up for the small number of hardware sprites, or to draw tiles since the Amiga didn't have a tile mode. The X68000 had lots of sprites and a tilemode. It also didn't need fancy copper tricks for stuff like parallax scrolling because it had so many independent playfields.

Audio-wise the Amiga could do 4 DMA PCM channels without software mixing or CPU usage, but then the 3Mhz extra cycles on the X68k meant it could do that reasonably well if it needed to. X68k games mostly used the FM synth anyway since it let them have complex music without using any RAM to store samples. For the purposes of games the X68k seems to pull out ahead. If the Amiga had shipped with a synth chip then it would have been the superior platform audio-wise.

The one huge leg up the Amiga had over the X68k was its OS. Human68k was garbage in comparison.

Of course Xenon 2 was an ST port that didn't even use the Amiga chipset meaningfully so it was probably a fairly straightforward port to the X68k as well. =P
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Old 23 October 2019, 20:49   #159
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Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
And to be honest, they don't look that impressive to me. I think the Amiga could recreate a lot of these games, easily.
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Originally Posted by Shatterhand View Post
You gotta be kidding, right? Just compare the games on that video that exists on Amiga with their Amiga versions.

No, an A500 can't touch a X68000.

On its lowest model, the X68000 comes with a 68000 at 10 mhz and 1mb of ram.

But its power is really on its graphical chip.

65536 colors
32 sprites per scanline. Each sprite can have 16 colors, chosen from 16 different palletes.
You can have a Bitmap playfield with 65536 colors, or 2 playfields at 256 colors each or 4 playfield at 16 colors each.
On top of that you sill have TWO TILE LAYERS with 256 colors each.

Soundwise is has 8 FM Chanells + 2 DAC channels + 1 PCM Channel.

You are joking, right?

And keep in mind, many X68000 games were made by "Bedroom coders" too, there are a lot of doujin games on that list.

No, most stuff on that video can't be done on an A500 with 1mb Ram. It can't. I'm sorry mate, but you are delusional if you truly believe that.
It's time for a rebuttal to my previous statement: After I posted the above, I thought I'd read the Wikipedia entry on the X68000, and it turns out it was aiming to recreate ARCADE-style graphics, which I somehow missed before. That changes things, and I know that arcade specs were superior to home computers and consoles at any given time, so I take back what I said above. Also, I didn't fully look at the video I linked to, only looked at a few random games, which turned out to be average, and immediately jumped to the conclusion I did. I was wrong. Silly me!
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Old 24 October 2019, 17:45   #160
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If the Amiga had shipped with a synth chip then it would have been the superior platform audio-wise.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Errr... no.

The Amiga works because of RGB audio and PCM sound samples. Synth stuff severely limits what the sound reproduction could be, and it would only be a SID fan's wet dream, anyway. That SID chip is overrated, to be honest.
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