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Old 28 June 2020, 19:28   #1
c0dehunter
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Can a NTSC Amiga output PAL signal as well?

In a few demos/games I have seen that there is an option to enable PAL/NTSC.



1) Does it mean that Amigas (500/600/1200 etc.) have a built-in dual signal capability?


2) If no, then I need a PAL system, since when I run my demos on my A500, 99% of the time the display is cut at the bottom, and I can't see the bottom scrolling/info part.



Thanks.
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Old 28 June 2020, 19:32   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c0dehunter View Post
In a few demos/games I have seen that there is an option to enable PAL/NTSC.



1) Does it mean that Amigas (500/600/1200 etc.) have a built-in dual signal capability?


2) If no, then I need a PAL system, since when I run my demos on my A500, 99% of the time the display is cut at the bottom, and I can't see the bottom scrolling/info part.



Thanks.
If you A500 is ECS then i'm sure it can, certainly we could in Europe.

If its OCS then no, but there is a hack you can do to the board if memory serves to change it.
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Old 28 June 2020, 19:33   #3
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1) Yes I believe so. If you hold both mouse buttons down on a reset you are presented with an option to switch between PAL and NSTC (Kickstart 2 or greater).
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Old 28 June 2020, 19:43   #4
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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
If you A500 is ECS then i'm sure it can, certainly we could in Europe.

If its OCS then no, but there is a hack you can do to the board if memory serves to change it.
Having an ECS Amiga translate to an A500+ then, right?


Another question:


Does anyone know that if Commodore 1984S are capable of outputing both PAL and NTSC? I am going to buy a NTSC unit from eBay, and it would be fantastic if it can do PAL as well.

Last edited by c0dehunter; 28 June 2020 at 23:12.
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Old 28 June 2020, 20:13   #5
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Having an ECS Amiga translate to an A500+ then, right?


Mine is an original OCS I believe.
ECS typically had 1meg chip ram and could switch between the two modes, OCS Amigas couldn't.

But i'm sure there is a mod you can do to the board to achieve the same thing.
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Old 28 June 2020, 20:33   #6
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You only need to have the ECS Agnus chip. Many A500s have that, though it wasn't publicised much at the time.

Using a program like Degrader you can get the Amiga to reboot into 50Hz mode, then boot demos that don't have a built-in 50/60Hz option.

You may have issues with your monitor in 50Hz mode (e.g. vertically rolling image).
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Old 28 June 2020, 23:13   #7
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Do you guys know if Commodore 1984S are capable of outputting both PAL and NTSC? (out of the box, without any modifications)

I am going to buy a NTSC unit from eBay, and it would be fantastic if it can do PAL as well.
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Old 29 June 2020, 03:07   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c0dehunter View Post
Do you guys know if Commodore 1984S are capable of outputting both PAL and NTSC? (out of the box, without any modifications)

I am going to buy a NTSC unit from eBay, and it would be fantastic if it can do PAL as well.
If you mean the 1084S, and you mean input, then yes it can handle both NTSC and PAL frequencies *ON THE RGB INPUT*. You will need to adjust the vertical size/position dials when you switch to make the aspect ratio match.

You cannot use NTSC/PAL on the composite and Y/C inputs on a monitor from the opposite region because of the different color carrier format -- the image will just be in black and white.
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Old 29 June 2020, 06:25   #9
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When you say the RGB, you are not referring to the SCART port, right?

This is the image of its backside:
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Old 29 June 2020, 08:35   #10
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Lin.RGB is the port to use for the Amiga. Almost equivalent to RGB SCART.

As far as I remember, NTSC world 1084s don't always automatically adjust the vertical height when switching between 60 and 50Hz like the ones here in PAL world do, so you will need to adjust the height know when switching between screen modes. There are a lot of different monitors sold with the 1084 label, so perhaps you got lucky.
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Old 29 June 2020, 09:31   #11
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My A500 worked in PAL and NTSC and had kickstart 1.3

booted by default in PAL but could switch to NTSC in some cracktros or bootblocks if you wanted
and of course could run NTSC or PAL games perfectly

I was a later A500 revision 6 with a enhanced Agnus chip

but the original A1000 A2000 and the A500 and old revisions (manufactured before 1989) were just PAL or NTSC and you could not switch between them

all Amiga models manufactured after 1989 were PAL/NTSC
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Old 29 June 2020, 11:50   #12
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My rev6 can do NTSC and PAL... it is a PAL system, but I can switch to NTSC with the boot menu or the ACA500+.

so I'm assuming "yes."
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Old 29 June 2020, 19:08   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c0dehunter View Post
When you say the RGB, you are not referring to the SCART port, right?

This is the image of its backside:

The two round black DIN connectors on the back are an analog RGB input, and a digital RGBI input. Because this is an NTSC 1084S, there is no SCART input (although there is a breakout space for it).

For the Amiga you want a cable that goes from the 23-pin RGB port on the back of the Amiga to the analog RGB DIN input, and press the button on the monitor's panel to select analog RGB.

The digital RGBI input is a 16-color input for IBM CGA, the Commodore 128's RGBI output, etc.

Also be aware that there are multiple models labeled 1084S. Most common are ones made by Philips/Magnavox and ones made by Daewoo. This is an early "box-shaped" Philips/Magnavox one with the DIN connectors. Later "curved" ones use a 9-pin D-sub connector. For this monitor obviously you need one with the Analog RGB DIN connector.

Last edited by AmigaHope; 29 June 2020 at 19:15.
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Old 30 June 2020, 23:14   #14
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Also be aware that there are multiple models labeled 1084S. Most common are ones made by Philips/Magnavox and ones made by Daewoo. This is an early "box-shaped" Philips/Magnavox one with the DIN connectors. Later "curved" ones use a 9-pin D-sub connector. For this monitor obviously you need one with the Analog RGB DIN connector.

Well, please take a look at the above picture that I posted, as it is the *same* one that I just bought off of eBay, and please tell me if it can display PAL.


Thanks!
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Old 01 July 2020, 06:57   #15
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Originally Posted by c0dehunter View Post
Well, please take a look at the above picture that I posted, as it is the *same* one that I just bought off of eBay, and please tell me if it can display PAL.


Thanks!
As AmigaHope stated, if you connect a cable from the Amiga’s 23-pin video port to the monitor’s analog RGB DIN port, yes, it can display NTSC or PAL, no problem.

If you’re connecting via the composite video port and the Amiga and monitor are from opposite regions then there will be problems.
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Old 01 July 2020, 09:14   #16
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Excellent! Now, how do I determine which A500 do I have? By opening it up, and checking the revision number?
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Old 01 July 2020, 22:29   #17
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Excellent! Now, how do I determine which A500 do I have? By opening it up, and checking the revision number?
For the purposes of switching between NTSC and PAL, all you need is to know is if you have an OCS or ECS Agnus. You can determine this using SysInfo, WhichAmiga, etc. If you are using AmigaOS 2.0 or higher (I believe, I don't remember which exactly it was added in) the Tools/ShowConfig program will give you the info.

You can also just open the machine and look at the Agnus.

If your Agnus is model 8370/8371, it is OCS. Anything higher is ECS.

A really fast easy way to check without opening your machine is to look at the color of the power LED. If it's red it almost certainly shipped with an OCS Agnus. If it's green, it probably shipped with an ECS Agnus. This is not a certain way to check as there may have been green ones that shipped with OCS Agnus, and ones with red LEDs could have been upgraded later.

EDIT: You only need to know the motherboard revision of A500 you have for some hardware hack reasons or a few rare expansions. The revision is clearly printed on the motherboard. Rev 3s are extremely rare. The most common motherboard revisions are Rev 5 and Rev 6A, with Rev 5 being more common in North America and Rev 6A being more common in Europe.

Rev 3 and Rev 5 came with red power LEDs and shipped with OCS Agnus. Rev 6A had green power LED and shipped with ECS Agnus usually. Of course since people have since modified their systems there is no 100% guarantee what Agnus they have and you have to use an info program or physically look at the chip to be absolutely certain.

Rev 8A is the A500+, which is almost exclusively found in Europe, but a few North American A500s are actually downgraded 8As, which can be modified to be full A500+.

You can find pictures of all the motherboards here:

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a500

Last edited by AmigaHope; 01 July 2020 at 22:51.
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Old 01 July 2020, 22:39   #18
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to make easy
try the game Turrican 3 which is only PAL and crash on NTSC machines

if this game works, you have PAL/NTSC Amiga
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Old 02 July 2020, 07:43   #19
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A really fast easy way to check without opening your machine is to look at the color of the power LED. If it's red it almost certainly shipped with an OCS Agnus. If it's green, it probably shipped with an ECS Agnus. This is not a certain way to check as there may have been green ones that shipped with OCS Agnus, and ones with red LEDs could have been upgraded later.
Much better than the colour is whether the LED can turn off or goes dim / bright.

If it can be turned off completely, the computer is rev 3 or 5 and will have shipped with an OCS Agnus originally. If it goes dim, it will be rev 6 or higher and will have had an ECS Agnus from the factory.
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Old 02 July 2020, 17:14   #20
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Much better than the colour is whether the LED can turn off or goes dim / bright.

If it can be turned off completely, the computer is rev 3 or 5 and will have shipped with an OCS Agnus originally. If it goes dim, it will be rev 6 or higher and will have had an ECS Agnus from the factory.
Absolutely, but that requires running software to turn off the low pass filter, and at that point you can just run WhichAmiga or whatever to find out which Agnus you have.

Checking the color you can do by just turning on the machine. Not as accurate but probably the easiest way to check if you have no way to get software onto the machine at the moment.
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