What to add to an A600 - Page 4

Zetr0 · 16 October 2016, 12:02

@TroyWilkins

When it comes to video display, unless you are very lucky, I am a firm believer in that you get what you pay for.

While most "newish" display panels in Europe have RGB Component SCART that will de-interlace an interlaced picture, the same cannot be said for most non-European territories.

If the shipping wasn't going to kill the deal I would humbly suggest getting a European TV/Display Pannel (something in the 32" range

) - However cost in shipping will kill that idea.

Lets look at the Options _______________________________________

$43.00 XRGB to HDMI (Including an RGB Cable)
These are quite new on the market and because of this not a known quantity as such. Now this little monster claims to accept RGB / SVideo and Composite input and output HDMI - I am looking at getting one of these soon for testing - so going by the write up it should be good.

Pro(s) / Con(s)

There are a lot of these devices that ONLY accept Composite (CBVS) via the SCART and not component RGB - so ensure you get the right one. The rest is to be discovered

__________________________________________________________

$45.00 - GBS8220 Component RGB to VGA
The GBS8220 originally designed for Video Arcade boards to use the more common VGA CRT based display panels - its about $25 + $10 for a 5V 2Amp Power source and you will need a component RGB Cable about another $10 (say about $45 all in) and this will give you a decent VGA screen output (with de-interlacing) at 1280x1024.

Pro(s):

Multiple Inputs such as Component YUV and TTL RGB (Spectrum 128 / BBC / Amstrad)
Provides a cheap way to connect to VGA equipped monitors
Provides de-interlacing (flicker fixing) on screen modes such as 640x512
VGA Pass-Through
Cheapest off the shelf solution

Con(s)

There's many versions, not all are that good and have artifacts on the screen, especially when using interlaced modes.
Earlier versions (< Revision 4) colours look very washed out on LCD panels.
Best performance seen on VGA equipped CRT / Plasma display panels.

__________________________________________________________

$94.00 Indivision ECS - VGA
This provides not only de-interlacing (Flicker Fixing) but also more screen modes including a pseudo RTG mode that enables 256 colours (on a stock ECS A600). it also has a new "super" mode that alows for yet more electrickey shenanigans. All in all, next to the ACA620 this is the best product Individual Computers have ever released (IMHO)

Pro(s)

8-bit, 15 bit, 16 bit chunky pixel modes (15 bit & 16 bits are converted) to 12 bits
Resolution from 320x200 to 1024x768
Video memory can be directly described by DMA chipset (up to 7.15 MB/s)
All OCS/ECS screenmodes displayed and scan-converted, output is always over 60Hz and flicker-free
Fallback to legacy flickerfixer-type 49.9Hz modes at the user's choice
Optional scanline emulation for retro-feeling
Re-configurable / re-flashable design, new screenmodes can be added with a software upgrade

Con(s)

Getting the VGA out of the case can be a struggle - especially if you don't want to modify the case or the motherboard
Some earlier LCD monitors seem to struggle with the one I have

__________________________________________________________

Okay, that should give you a brief overview of the cheapest options available this is by no means an inclusive list nor does it really touch on the more expensive options of video connectivity.

*NB
While I have had use of the Indivision ECS (my friend Bas has it at the moment) I have decided to have a punt and ordered that MiniXRGB to HDMI unit - with a bit of luck I plan to do another Hack@Home article and have some fun with it. Also, another Indivision ECS is quite a nice thought too.

TroyWilkins · 18 October 2016, 07:53

Fantastic, you are a real asset to the Amiga community @Zetr0, and thank you also to @idrougge and @ajk thank you so very much. I'll go and find what monitors may be suitable and if they're available here, but it does appear that the Indivision ECS would be a valuable addition to my A600. I think I'll do what I've seen others do and remove the RF modulator in order to use the space it currently occupies at the back for the VGA connector.

So now I have a shopping list:

Furia 020
Indivision ECS
A600 case screws
PCMCIA CF adapter and appropriate CF card

Seems to me I'd have a pretty nice little compact A600 then, and after all that I'll get in line for a Vampire II... I may also contemplate a replacement for the floppy drive, but once I have a better processor and some fast ram it won't be as necessary as I'll be able to use the WHDload games that don't work on my setup at the moment.

ajk · 18 October 2016, 08:05

The Indivision will certainly allow for nice, roomy screenmodes for Workbench use

Here's mine:

TroyWilkins · 19 October 2016, 00:57

Ooooooh... That looks so neat, nice work @ajk

side-note, I love seeing the other keyboards, particularly seeing the keys that are blank on my US style keyboard actually having something printed on them.

idrougge · 19 October 2016, 01:25

Is that a Portuguese keyboard?

Amiga1992 · 19 October 2016, 05:11

No I think that's a British one, it has a prominent POund sign. I don't remember my British A600s, my main A600 is a German one so I stare at a QWERTZ layout.

TroyWilkins · 19 October 2016, 05:30

Much more interesting than my A600 with it's blank keys. Being an Australian A600, it's got the US key layout and PAL video output.

ajk · 19 October 2016, 06:45

@idrougge, Akira

To the best of my knowledge it is indeed a Portugese keyboard, although that is an old picture and I have since swapped it to a Finnish layout. I got the Portugese one from Vesalia as NOS ages ago.

@TroyWilkins

The actual US layout should have a wider shift and enter key, eliminating the blank ones. At least that is the case for some other Amiga models. It could be that the A600 was so unpopular that they didn't even make a specific US layout

TroyWilkins · 19 October 2016, 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajk

@TroyWilkins

The actual US layout should have a wider shift and enter key, eliminating the blank ones. At least that is the case for some other Amiga models. It could be that the A600 was so unpopular that they didn't even make a specific US layout

I believe so, unless someone corrects us here, all the US layouts I've ever seen on A600 had the 2 blank keys, but I could be wrong. As far as I know, all Australian A600s had blank keys, and I think the Australian A1200s did too...

TroyWilkins · 20 November 2016, 10:06

Update time:

Slight change of plans and a setback.

I got myself a PCMCIA CompactFlash adapter, and a 4GB CF card to go with it, to make transfers to and from my A600 much easier. All good until I start up the A600 to install the required files to access the CF card via PCMCIA. It booted fine into Workbench, so I inserted the disk that came with the PCMCIA adapter in order to install everything needed for it, and the A600 locked up after opening the disk contents - mouse didn't move, DF0 light stayed on with the motor turning the disk... So I give it the 3 finger salute after waiting about 30 seconds and instead of Workbench booting up, I get the Insert Disk Kickstart screen. Hmm. Opened up the A600, unplugged and re-installed the 2.5" cable, as well as the IDE to mSATA adapter. No change. Sometimes the hard drive light would come on and stay on, other times it wouldn't light up any more than when it should be dim (known side-effect of using the mSATA adapter). Checked the early startup menu and all that was showing was DF0 and CC0. Hmm. This is not good.

So I unplugged the mSATA adapter, and plugged it with the drive still attached into the USB adapter, fired up WinUAE, loaded my 'My Real A600 w mSATA' config, and it booted up no problem from the drive. Put it back in the A600 and no change, not showing in the early startup menu, and seemingly pot luck if the disk activity light would stay on or not.

So, I've ordered a replacement 2.5" IDE cable, which should arrive here on or before the 20th of December, according to the seller on eBay. If that doesn't fix it, I would have to guess it's a problem with the A600 itself - and if so, I might be looking for another A600, or maybe even an A1200...

Anyway, I've been working on my web site, and learning more about the Amiga hardware and software, and that got me looking up genlocks - something I always wanted bak in the day, but never got. And after seeing a few videos on youtube, I think I may get one now, and a video camera to go with it. I think the kids and I could have a heck of a lot of fun playing around with such a setup, and it would really show the creative potential the Amiga platform really had, and still has. I could even get a capture device for my PC to connect to the genlock output and thus record what we make.

If anyone has any ideas regarding the seemingly dead IDE, I'd really appreciate it.

Spacemonkey · 20 November 2016, 11:13

Your setup looks similar to mine and my mSATA works fine I once it plugged in the right way round.

What version of ROM do you have installed as it may not support the IDE port, check out here http://wiki.classicamiga.com/A600_Upgrade_Options

TroyWilkins · 20 November 2016, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Your setup looks similar to mine and my mSATA works fine I once it plugged in the right way round.

What version of ROM do you have installed as it may not support the IDE port, check out here http://wiki.classicamiga.com/A600_Upgrade_Options

Kickstart 37.350, soldered to the board from the factory, has been working until the other day.

Anakirob · 20 November 2016, 12:34

A few years ago, when I was living in Melbourne I had a very large (>40") BenQ TV I found in hard rubbish (there was some problems with the audio) which had not one but two SCART ports, and a nice de-interlaced display, so it seems that such a display device can be found on our shores. Indeed it was probably the sweetest display I've ever had for an Amiga, it was the only display I would have seriously considered using (and did use for some applications) super hi-res laced mode. A pity it got stolen.

I'm currently using a component RGB input on my LG TV and feel your inadequate display blues. The big display is great for gaming, but God help you if you're trying to read an 8x8 font on the bastard. And sometimes the colours clash in a way which makes certain colours like full red (F,0,0) bleed all over the place. At least it de-interlaces.

That XRGB interface looks promising, I eagerly await Zetr0's evaluation of it.

Hewitson · 29 November 2016, 09:42

You couldn't possibly be using component video if you're getting those artifacts.

I suggest investing in a good quality RGB to YUV converter. I use the Cypress CSY-2100 and the results are 99% as good as a display with an actual RGB input. It's a must have for any Amiga user unlucky enough to live in this country.

TroyWilkins · 29 November 2016, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyWilkins

Ok, I'm starting to get a little annoyed with the composite video output I'm currently using, it's nowhere near as good (obviously) as how I remember things looking on my 1084s back in the day, or the NEC multisync I replaced it with. So I started looking into what my options are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

You couldn't possibly be using component video if you're getting those artifacts.

I went back to check in case I'd made the mistake of mixing up composite and component, and I didn't, it is composite from the A600.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

I suggest investing in a good quality RGB to YUV converter. I use the Cypress CSY-2100 and the results are 99% as good as a display with an actual RGB input. It's a must have for any Amiga user unlucky enough to live in this country.

Is this what you mean?

http://www.cypconverters.com.au/vide.../csy-2100.html

So get one of theose and an Amiga RGB 23-pin to scart, and then connect from the YUV to the TV?

Wow, $145.40 Australian. And I'd still need to get a scart cable.

The Indivision ECS costs $144.38 Australian Dollars at the current exchange rate.

Hmm, I think I'd prefer the Indivision for that kind of money. But thank you for the suggestion, it is very much appreciated.

Hewitson · 29 November 2016, 11:16

It's very difficult to get smooth scrolling on the Indivision from what I've heard. Another thing to keep in mind is that the converter could be used for many other machines (consoles etc).

Cheaper (but also very good) options are the JROK and NeoBitz (assuming they're still made). Or if you can use a soldering iron, Analog Devices will send you a sample IC for nothing.

TroyWilkins · 12 December 2016, 05:46

Ok, finally my replacement 44 pin IDE cable arrived today and... Same result. It seems there may be something wrong with the A600 itself. *sigh*

16 October 2016, 12:02	#61
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	Video Display Options for 2016 @TroyWilkins When it comes to video display, unless you are very lucky, I am a firm believer in that you get what you pay for. While most "newish" display panels in Europe have RGB Component SCART that will de-interlace an interlaced picture, the same cannot be said for most non-European territories. If the shipping wasn't going to kill the deal I would humbly suggest getting a European TV/Display Pannel (something in the 32" range ) - However cost in shipping will kill that idea. Lets look at the Options _______________________________________ $43.00 XRGB to HDMI (Including an RGB Cable) These are quite new on the market and because of this not a known quantity as such. Now this little monster claims to accept RGB / SVideo and Composite input and output HDMI - I am looking at getting one of these soon for testing - so going by the write up it should be good. Pro(s) / Con(s) There are a lot of these devices that ONLY accept Composite (CBVS) via the SCART and not component RGB - so ensure you get the right one. The rest is to be discovered __________________________________________________________ $45.00 - GBS8220 Component RGB to VGA The GBS8220 originally designed for Video Arcade boards to use the more common VGA CRT based display panels - its about $25 + $10 for a 5V 2Amp Power source and you will need a component RGB Cable about another $10 (say about $45 all in) and this will give you a decent VGA screen output (with de-interlacing) at 1280x1024. Pro(s): Multiple Inputs such as Component YUV and TTL RGB (Spectrum 128 / BBC / Amstrad) Provides a cheap way to connect to VGA equipped monitors Provides de-interlacing (flicker fixing) on screen modes such as 640x512 VGA Pass-Through Cheapest off the shelf solution Con(s) There's many versions, not all are that good and have artifacts on the screen, especially when using interlaced modes. Earlier versions (< Revision 4) colours look very washed out on LCD panels. Best performance seen on VGA equipped CRT / Plasma display panels. __________________________________________________________ $94.00 Indivision ECS - VGA This provides not only de-interlacing (Flicker Fixing) but also more screen modes including a pseudo RTG mode that enables 256 colours (on a stock ECS A600). it also has a new "super" mode that alows for yet more electrickey shenanigans. All in all, next to the ACA620 this is the best product Individual Computers have ever released (IMHO) Pro(s) 8-bit, 15 bit, 16 bit chunky pixel modes (15 bit & 16 bits are converted) to 12 bits Resolution from 320x200 to 1024x768 Video memory can be directly described by DMA chipset (up to 7.15 MB/s) All OCS/ECS screenmodes displayed and scan-converted, output is always over 60Hz and flicker-free Fallback to legacy flickerfixer-type 49.9Hz modes at the user's choice Optional scanline emulation for retro-feeling Re-configurable / re-flashable design, new screenmodes can be added with a software upgrade Con(s) Getting the VGA out of the case can be a struggle - especially if you don't want to modify the case or the motherboard Some earlier LCD monitors seem to struggle with the one I have __________________________________________________________ Okay, that should give you a brief overview of the cheapest options available this is by no means an inclusive list nor does it really touch on the more expensive options of video connectivity. NB While I have had use of the Indivision ECS (my friend Bas has it at the moment) I have decided to have a punt and ordered that MiniXRGB to HDMI unit - with a bit of luck I plan to do another Hack@Home article and have some fun with it. Also, another Indivision ECS is quite a nice thought too. Last edited by Zetr0; 16 October 2016 at 12:17.*

18 October 2016, 07:53	#62
TroyWilkins Registered User Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 548	Fantastic, you are a real asset to the Amiga community @Zetr0, and thank you also to @idrougge and @ajk thank you so very much. I'll go and find what monitors may be suitable and if they're available here, but it does appear that the Indivision ECS would be a valuable addition to my A600. I think I'll do what I've seen others do and remove the RF modulator in order to use the space it currently occupies at the back for the VGA connector. So now I have a shopping list: Furia 020 Indivision ECS A600 case screws PCMCIA CF adapter and appropriate CF card Seems to me I'd have a pretty nice little compact A600 then, and after all that I'll get in line for a Vampire II... I may also contemplate a replacement for the floppy drive, but once I have a better processor and some fast ram it won't be as necessary as I'll be able to use the WHDload games that don't work on my setup at the moment.

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18 October 2016, 08:05	#63
ajk Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1,341	The Indivision will certainly allow for nice, roomy screenmodes for Workbench use Here's mine:

19 October 2016, 00:57	#64
TroyWilkins Registered User Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 548	Ooooooh... That looks so neat, nice work @ajk side-note, I love seeing the other keyboards, particularly seeing the keys that are blank on my US style keyboard actually having something printed on them.

19 October 2016, 01:25	#65
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,337	Is that a Portuguese keyboard?

19 October 2016, 05:11	#66
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	No I think that's a British one, it has a prominent POund sign. I don't remember my British A600s, my main A600 is a German one so I stare at a QWERTZ layout.

19 October 2016, 05:30	#67
TroyWilkins Registered User Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 548	Much more interesting than my A600 with it's blank keys. Being an Australian A600, it's got the US key layout and PAL video output.

19 October 2016, 06:45	#68
ajk Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1,341	@idrougge, Akira To the best of my knowledge it is indeed a Portugese keyboard, although that is an old picture and I have since swapped it to a Finnish layout. I got the Portugese one from Vesalia as NOS ages ago. @TroyWilkins The actual US layout should have a wider shift and enter key, eliminating the blank ones. At least that is the case for some other Amiga models. It could be that the A600 was so unpopular that they didn't even make a specific US layout

20 November 2016, 10:06	#70
TroyWilkins Registered User Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 548	Update time: Slight change of plans and a setback. I got myself a PCMCIA CompactFlash adapter, and a 4GB CF card to go with it, to make transfers to and from my A600 much easier. All good until I start up the A600 to install the required files to access the CF card via PCMCIA. It booted fine into Workbench, so I inserted the disk that came with the PCMCIA adapter in order to install everything needed for it, and the A600 locked up after opening the disk contents - mouse didn't move, DF0 light stayed on with the motor turning the disk... So I give it the 3 finger salute after waiting about 30 seconds and instead of Workbench booting up, I get the Insert Disk Kickstart screen. Hmm. Opened up the A600, unplugged and re-installed the 2.5" cable, as well as the IDE to mSATA adapter. No change. Sometimes the hard drive light would come on and stay on, other times it wouldn't light up any more than when it should be dim (known side-effect of using the mSATA adapter). Checked the early startup menu and all that was showing was DF0 and CC0. Hmm. This is not good. So I unplugged the mSATA adapter, and plugged it with the drive still attached into the USB adapter, fired up WinUAE, loaded my 'My Real A600 w mSATA' config, and it booted up no problem from the drive. Put it back in the A600 and no change, not showing in the early startup menu, and seemingly pot luck if the disk activity light would stay on or not. So, I've ordered a replacement 2.5" IDE cable, which should arrive here on or before the 20th of December, according to the seller on eBay. If that doesn't fix it, I would have to guess it's a problem with the A600 itself - and if so, I might be looking for another A600, or maybe even an A1200... Anyway, I've been working on my web site, and learning more about the Amiga hardware and software, and that got me looking up genlocks - something I always wanted bak in the day, but never got. And after seeing a few videos on youtube, I think I may get one now, and a video camera to go with it. I think the kids and I could have a heck of a lot of fun playing around with such a setup, and it would really show the creative potential the Amiga platform really had, and still has. I could even get a capture device for my PC to connect to the genlock output and thus record what we make. If anyone has any ideas regarding the seemingly dead IDE, I'd really appreciate it.

20 November 2016, 11:13	#71
Spacemonkey Registered User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Salisbury Posts: 87	Your setup looks similar to mine and my mSATA works fine I once it plugged in the right way round. What version of ROM do you have installed as it may not support the IDE port, check out here http://wiki.classicamiga.com/A600_Upgrade_Options

20 November 2016, 12:34	#73
Anakirob Unregistered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tasmania Age: 42 Posts: 893	A few years ago, when I was living in Melbourne I had a very large (>40") BenQ TV I found in hard rubbish (there was some problems with the audio) which had not one but two SCART ports, and a nice de-interlaced display, so it seems that such a display device can be found on our shores. Indeed it was probably the sweetest display I've ever had for an Amiga, it was the only display I would have seriously considered using (and did use for some applications) super hi-res laced mode. A pity it got stolen. I'm currently using a component RGB input on my LG TV and feel your inadequate display blues. The big display is great for gaming, but God help you if you're trying to read an 8x8 font on the bastard. And sometimes the colours clash in a way which makes certain colours like full red (F,0,0) bleed all over the place. At least it de-interlaces. That XRGB interface looks promising, I eagerly await Zetr0's evaluation of it.

29 November 2016, 09:42	#74
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,773	You couldn't possibly be using component video if you're getting those artifacts. I suggest investing in a good quality RGB to YUV converter. I use the Cypress CSY-2100 and the results are 99% as good as a display with an actual RGB input. It's a must have for any Amiga user unlucky enough to live in this country.

29 November 2016, 11:16	#76
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,773	It's very difficult to get smooth scrolling on the Indivision from what I've heard. Another thing to keep in mind is that the converter could be used for many other machines (consoles etc). Cheaper (but also very good) options are the JROK and NeoBitz (assuming they're still made). Or if you can use a soldering iron, Analog Devices will send you a sample IC for nothing.

12 December 2016, 05:46	#77
TroyWilkins Registered User Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 548	Ok, finally my replacement 44 pin IDE cable arrived today and... Same result. It seems there may be something wrong with the A600 itself. sigh

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