App. to decrease RAM to be PCMCIA friendly

fc.studio · 23 January 2008, 10:40

All simple RAM or 68020 boards and some 68030 boards are not PCMCIA friendly if the installed FAST RAM is more than 4 MB.

In the past I had an utility coming with my 8 MB Microbotics MBX 1200z that, by a simple click on its icon, disabled and enabled memory over 4 MB so that you could use PCMCIA port without removing the board or the FAST RAM.

Does a general application exist performing this job for EVERY board or, at least, 68020 based?

I would like to try again the Microbotics utility with other cards, but unfortunately I can't find it anymore 'cause it surely followed the MBX 1200z that I've no more. If someone could upload it to the zone it would be appreciated.

alexh · 23 January 2008, 10:51

I wonder how it could have worked?

I suspect it was a custom application just for that board which talked directly to the logic on the card and told it not to respond to accesses to the upper addresses.

alexh · 23 January 2008, 12:25

If you find the program, we'll work out exactly what it did.

fc.studio · 23 January 2008, 12:49

Oh yes, it worked... but sincerly what I'm not 100% sure is if on running it again then it re-enabled the Fast RAM.

However, if I'm not wrong, on the A500 (1.3) there is a Workbench tool enabling/disabling ALL Fast RAM.

RedskullDC · 23 January 2008, 14:17

Hi fc.studio,

Quote:

Originally Posted by fc.studio

All simple RAM or 68020 boards and some 68030 boards are not PCMCIA friendly if the installed FAST RAM is more than 4 MB.

In the past I had an utility coming with my 8 MB Microbotics MBX 1200z that, by a simple click on its icon, disabled and enabled memory over 4 MB so that you could use PCMCIA port without removing the board or the FAST RAM.

Does a general application exist performing this job for EVERY board or, at least, 68020 based?

I would like to try again the Microbotics utility with other cards, but unfortunately I can't find it anymore 'cause it surely followed the MBX 1200z that I've no more. If someone could upload it to the zone it would be appreciated.

I don't remember getting such a utility with my 1200z board. The memory size of 4/8MB was set by one(or more) of the jumpers.
The 1230a (1200z's big brother you could say) *DID* have such a utility, which allowed you to configure acess time, mem size etc.
You can find the 1230a utility at:
http://www.l8r.net/install/other/68/MBX1230Tools.lha

It would be impractical to have a utility that performed such a function for EVERY board, even if (and that is a big IF) said boards supported such control via software.

In your other post you mention a WB util which disable fast ram.
This is done in one of two ways:

1. Allocate all the fast ram you can get.
This normally leaves some system structures at the beginning of fast ram.
Check for yourself using something like "Scout" or "ASP".

2. Hack the free memory list to remove all fast ram entries before workbench loads. You will find some old bootblock loaders which would do this under WB1.2/1.3 due to some poorly written games which bombed with fastram installed. the "CCS" bootblock comes to mind.
Probably only works for the $C7 512k space though.

Making fast ram "invisible" to Workbench, and physically disabling it hardware-wise to avoid PCMCIA conflicts are really two seperate issues.

Red

alexh · 23 January 2008, 14:35

Would a 1230 board suffer from PCMCIA incompatibility? Most 030 accelerators used 030 chips with a 32-bit address bus and so fast ram could be allocated above the 24-bit address space in which normal Amiga hardware exists.

I can confirm that the 1200z does have jumpers to control RAM size. They may have been in addition to any software, but it seems strange to have two mechanisms.

RedskullDC · 23 January 2008, 14:47

Hi Alexh,

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Would a 1230 board suffer from PCMCIA incompatibility? Most 030 accelerators used 030 chips with a 32-bit address bus and so fast ram could be allocated above the 24-bit address space in which normal Amiga hardware exists.
.

No, I don't believe Microbotics 1230xa was PCMCIA incompatible.

Only 030 boards that are incompatible (as far as I know anyway) are:
"MTEC 1230" (not sure which models) and "Turbo Jet A1230"
which both have 8MB max.

Red

alexh · 23 January 2008, 14:53

Very strange, I think that all 030 chips had the 32-bit address bus, even the LC and EC variants.

It must have been cheaper to use a smaller CPLD controller which is not connected to all the address pins.

Toni Wilen · 23 January 2008, 15:01

I guess most/all 68020/030 accelerators that have 8MB ram restriction use 0x00200000 Z2 area because it is cheaper, less address lines to connect

alexh · 23 January 2008, 16:54

Slightly going off topic, but do some 020 accelerators use EC chips? Unlike the EC030 I *think* that EC020 has only a 24-bit address bus?

fc.studio · 23 January 2008, 18:52

Hi RedskullDC,

Code:

 
I don't remember getting such a utility with my 1200z board. The memory size of 4/8MB was set by one(or more) of the jumpers.

One jumper had to be set to configure the 4 MB or 8 MB SIMM installed. Surely I set it to use the full 8 MB SIMM. Probably, but here I'm not sure, I could use the same jumper to limit the 8 MB SIMM to 4 MB only. What I'm sure is that I used a tool to decrease the Fast RAM from 8 MB to 4 MB. It came with a disk branded Microbotics and it came with another tool by Microbotics to perform a slow test to whole memory.

Code:

 
Hack the free memory list to remove all fast ram entries before workbench loads. You will find some old bootblock loaders which would do this under WB1.2/1.3 due to some poorly written games which bombed with fastram installed. the "CCS" bootblock comes to mind.
Probably only works for the $C7 512k space though.

Mmmmm... The tool I was referring is NoFastMem and I forgot it is in OS3.9 too. Obviously i run it with Workbench already loaded and it can disable and then enable again ALL Fast RAM. Now I've a Blizzard 68030 with MMU, but I could bet that it works with 68EC020 boards too.

Code:

Making fast ram "invisible" to Workbench, and physically disabling it hardware-wise to avoid PCMCIA conflicts are really two seperate issues.

...perhaps you are right, but are you sure that on setting a jumper on an expansion board you do not activate a firmware software in the card? Some jumper options are not simple switch on/off card.

DrF · 23 January 2008, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Slightly going off topic, but do some 020 accelerators use EC chips? Unlike the EC030 I *think* that EC020 has only a 24-bit address bus?

Yes I think there was a Blizzard that used a EC020 at 28Mhz.

EDIT: Here it is :

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showha...cgi?HARDID=147

fc.studio · 24 January 2008, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Slightly going off topic, but do some 020 accelerators use EC chips? Unlike the EC030 I *think* that EC020 has only a 24-bit address bus?

Blizzard 1220/4, Apollo 1220, TRA1200 have ALL a 68EC020 @ 28 and their FAST RAM, reported by Sysinfo 3.24, is detected as Public Kick 24 Bit DMA and start address is x00200020.
AIBB 6.5 reports for them 32 bit memory node bus PORT WIDTH and start address is x00200000.
Little incongruence between these 2 tools about start address but this should be as reported by AIBB.

Any chance to get a software memory reducer to have 4 MB only?

alexh · 24 January 2008, 10:20

Only if they are specific to that RAM card and "switch" something inside the card.

fc.studio · 24 January 2008, 11:55

But how does NoFastMem work? It always works and it is not specific to RAM card!

Is there a good coder able to modify NoFastMem to leave max 4 MB instead of 0 MB? Would a tool like this work so that PCMCIA port could be used?

It would be very useful to many Amiga users, with RAM board or 68EC020 accelerator, to activate the PCMCIA port by limiting temporarily the RAM to 4 MB via software and probably by a simple click. Boring jumper settings or SIMM replacements could be avoided.

Toni Wilen · 24 January 2008, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fc.studio

But how does NoFastMem work? It always works and it is not specific to RAM card!

Is there a good coder able to modify NoFastMem to leave max 4 MB instead of 0 MB? Would a tool like this work so that PCMCIA port could be used?

It would be very useful to many Amiga users, with RAM board or 68EC020 accelerator, to activate the PCMCIA port by limiting temporarily the RAM to 4 MB via software and probably by a simple click. Boring jumper settings or SIMM replacements could be avoided.

No no no. It won't ever work without hardware support or modification. (NoFastMem simply allocates the memory, nothing to do with PCMCIA problem)

fc.studio · 24 January 2008, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

No no no. It won't ever work without hardware support or modification. (NoFastMem simply allocates the memory, nothing to do with PCMCIA problem)

Sigh!!!

UberFreak · 10 October 2009, 04:48

Hi

I know this is an old thread, but having just installed an 1200z into my A1200, I have found the answer.
There is a software disk supplied with the 1200z, which contains a program called MBXRam8, which toggles the upper 4mb of fastmem on/off (and also the PCMCIA slot).

The card needs to be configured to 4mb, with a 8bm SIMM ("2 banks" jumper must be OFF).
Upon boot, the default is 4mb + PCMCIA active. If 8mb are needed, MBXRam8 should be executed.

Hope this helps someone!

Cammy · 10 October 2009, 05:31

MagicMem lets you use 5.5MB Fast RAM with a PCMCIA card plugged in, which is waaay more useful than 4MB if you're going online. That extra 1.5MB lets you actually load images on web pages

alexh · 10 October 2009, 09:48

Does this MagicMem program work with any RAM card or just DKB1202?

23 January 2008, 10:40	#1
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	App. to decrease RAM to be PCMCIA friendly All simple RAM or 68020 boards and some 68030 boards are not PCMCIA friendly if the installed FAST RAM is more than 4 MB. In the past I had an utility coming with my 8 MB Microbotics MBX 1200z that, by a simple click on its icon, disabled and enabled memory over 4 MB so that you could use PCMCIA port without removing the board or the FAST RAM. Does a general application exist performing this job for EVERY board or, at least, 68020 based? I would like to try again the Microbotics utility with other cards, but unfortunately I can't find it anymore 'cause it surely followed the MBX 1200z that I've no more. If someone could upload it to the zone it would be appreciated.

23 January 2008, 18:52	#11
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Hi RedskullDC, Code: I don't remember getting such a utility with my 1200z board. The memory size of 4/8MB was set by one(or more) of the jumpers. One jumper had to be set to configure the 4 MB or 8 MB SIMM installed. Surely I set it to use the full 8 MB SIMM. Probably, but here I'm not sure, I could use the same jumper to limit the 8 MB SIMM to 4 MB only. What I'm sure is that I used a tool to decrease the Fast RAM from 8 MB to 4 MB. It came with a disk branded Microbotics and it came with another tool by Microbotics to perform a slow test to whole memory. Code: Hack the free memory list to remove all fast ram entries before workbench loads. You will find some old bootblock loaders which would do this under WB1.2/1.3 due to some poorly written games which bombed with fastram installed. the "CCS" bootblock comes to mind. Probably only works for the $C7 512k space though. Mmmmm... The tool I was referring is NoFastMem and I forgot it is in OS3.9 too. Obviously i run it with Workbench already loaded and it can disable and then enable again ALL Fast RAM. Now I've a Blizzard 68030 with MMU, but I could bet that it works with 68EC020 boards too. Code: Making fast ram "invisible" to Workbench, and physically disabling it hardware-wise to avoid PCMCIA conflicts are really two seperate issues. ...perhaps you are right, but are you sure that on setting a jumper on an expansion board you do not activate a firmware software in the card? Some jumper options are not simple switch on/off card.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
PCMCIA Ram	Dagger	support.Hardware	4	23 March 2010 01:29
WANTED Pcmcia RAM cards	Smiley	MarketPlace	8	05 December 2008 23:08
Is Apollo1230 card fully pcmcia friendly..?	macce2	support.Hardware	12	14 December 2007 16:42
Can the OS3.9 RomUpdate decrease combatibility???	keropi	project.WHDLoad	1	13 February 2005 01:15
PCMCIA Ram	Galahad/FLT	support.Hardware	9	09 May 2004 14:46

23 January 2008, 10:51	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	I wonder how it could have worked? I suspect it was a custom application just for that board which talked directly to the logic on the card and told it not to respond to accesses to the upper addresses.

23 January 2008, 12:25	#3
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	If you find the program, we'll work out exactly what it did.

23 January 2008, 12:49	#4
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Oh yes, it worked... but sincerly what I'm not 100% sure is if on running it again then it re-enabled the Fast RAM. However, if I'm not wrong, on the A500 (1.3) there is a Workbench tool enabling/disabling ALL Fast RAM.

23 January 2008, 14:35	#6
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	Would a 1230 board suffer from PCMCIA incompatibility? Most 030 accelerators used 030 chips with a 32-bit address bus and so fast ram could be allocated above the 24-bit address space in which normal Amiga hardware exists. I can confirm that the 1200z does have jumpers to control RAM size. They may have been in addition to any software, but it seems strange to have two mechanisms.

23 January 2008, 14:53	#8
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	Very strange, I think that all 030 chips had the 32-bit address bus, even the LC and EC variants. It must have been cheaper to use a smaller CPLD controller which is not connected to all the address pins.

23 January 2008, 15:01	#9
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,518	I guess most/all 68020/030 accelerators that have 8MB ram restriction use 0x00200000 Z2 area because it is cheaper, less address lines to connect

23 January 2008, 16:54	#10
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	Slightly going off topic, but do some 020 accelerators use EC chips? Unlike the EC030 I think that EC020 has only a 24-bit address bus?

24 January 2008, 10:20	#14
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	Only if they are specific to that RAM card and "switch" something inside the card.

24 January 2008, 11:55	#15
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	But how does NoFastMem work? It always works and it is not specific to RAM card! Is there a good coder able to modify NoFastMem to leave max 4 MB instead of 0 MB? Would a tool like this work so that PCMCIA port could be used? It would be very useful to many Amiga users, with RAM board or 68EC020 accelerator, to activate the PCMCIA port by limiting temporarily the RAM to 4 MB via software and probably by a simple click. Boring jumper settings or SIMM replacements could be avoided.

10 October 2009, 04:48	#18
UberFreak Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: the world Posts: 439	Hi I know this is an old thread, but having just installed an 1200z into my A1200, I have found the answer. There is a software disk supplied with the 1200z, which contains a program called MBXRam8, which toggles the upper 4mb of fastmem on/off (and also the PCMCIA slot). The card needs to be configured to 4mb, with a 8bm SIMM ("2 banks" jumper must be OFF). Upon boot, the default is 4mb + PCMCIA active. If 8mb are needed, MBXRam8 should be executed. Hope this helps someone!

10 October 2009, 05:31	#19
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	MagicMem lets you use 5.5MB Fast RAM with a PCMCIA card plugged in, which is waaay more useful than 4MB if you're going online. That extra 1.5MB lets you actually load images on web pages

10 October 2009, 09:48	#20
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,355	Does this MagicMem program work with any RAM card or just DKB1202?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)