Please open source all the things

[Photon]

I'm all for reinventing the wheel. Each time it has been, it's become that bit better. If you think doing so is wasting programmers' valuable time, then don't ask the previous inventor to value the time he put in at zero.

The best chance of getting a source released is to promise the inventor that you'll make his wheel that much better

Another is to convince him he might die tomorrow and his sources should be preserved for posterity. Just try to make it not sound like a threat

[wXR]

Doesn't sound exactly true re: The wheel being consistently improved, but generally the point is well made about persuasive language...

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by Photon

The best chance of getting a source released is to promise the inventor that you'll make his wheel that much better

Chances are that it will no longer be his wheel, though. Might not want to release his source once he realises that.

Another is to convince him he might die tomorrow and his sources should be preserved for posterity.

As a culture we learn and grow through grieving. If a coder dies and his code goes with him, it's important that we grieve the loss of his code if not the coder. How can we become more than we are now if we keep softening the blow?

D.

[copse]

Originally Posted by Dunny

Chances are that it will no longer be his wheel, though. Might not want to release his source once he realises that.

Have you released many open source projects? You get moaning from users who demand you do work to fix huge problems, which often are just trivial annoyances. Your time is not worth anything. And then you release something which people have time and time again asked for the source for, and no-one does anything with it.

A programmer who reads this kind of selfishness attributed to them, will see it as a shallow maneuver to guilt them into doing what the poster wants.

Reading this thread, and the posts like this, make me less likely to open source things as a programmer.

Originally Posted by Dunny

As a culture we learn and grow through grieving. If a coder dies and his code goes with him, it's important that we grieve the loss of his code if not the coder. How can we become more than we are now if we keep softening the blow?

Their code doesn't go with them. As long as you have the binary, there are options.

If someone really wanted it, they have options to get an open version. They could disassemble it and recreate it. Or they could clone it and write it from scratch. And really, not knowing how to program is not an excuse. It has never been a better time to learn how to code, with stackoverflow, reddit and internet forums.

It all comes down to whose time is worth anything to the person who wants the code. WinUAE is the ultimate case in point, as is MAME or the Dolphin emulator. Then there is MasterSeka, AsmOne and Trash'm'One, long time examples of reverse engineered Amiga software which were then improved.

I'm not saying it's not a loss when old code is lost, but I am saying is that there are options if the what the code makes is worth the time and effort of whoever really wants what it is when compiled. But it's easier to just post bemoaning how others won't give you their hard work for free, yet again dismissing the thousands of hours of work you put into it.

[Mrs Beanbag]

Originally Posted by copse

And really, not knowing how to program is not an excuse. It has never been a better time to learn how to code, with stackoverflow, reddit and internet forums.

It is the best of times, it is the worst of times.

[saimon69]

@Mrs Beanbag

It was the Best of Times, it was i woulda say the worst of times

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by copse

Have you released many open source projects? You get moaning from users who demand you do work to fix huge problems, which often are just trivial annoyances. Your time is not worth anything. And then you release something which people have time and time again asked for the source for, and no-one does anything with it.

Yeah, pretty much all my code is open source. Some are PD, some are GPL. A couple have been phenomenally popular but none have been picked up when I stopped coding - and yes, I still get requests to go back to them and implement new stuff.

And really, not knowing how to program is not an excuse. It has never been a better time to learn how to code, with stackoverflow, reddit and internet forums.

I'm actually working on that at the moment - looks like I'll be helping with a new British initiative to get kids coding again, but it will unfortunately [i]not[i] be open sourced

D.

[Vot]

Originally Posted by Dunny

Yeah, pretty much all my code is open source. Some are PD, some are GPL. A couple have been phenomenally popular but none have been picked up when I stopped coding.

Is it because your releases are shit ? ...... Sorry I couldn't help it.. You are a Dunny

In all seriousness what did you release?

[wXR]

Please, Vot...

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by Vot

Is it because your releases are shit ? ...... Sorry I couldn't help it.. You are a Dunny

In all seriousness what did you release?

Well, yes, they are

There's numerous small utilities, but they're of no consequence. I created the Spectrum emulator ZXSpin in collaboration with a few members of the team, and we released the source when work stopped on that. It's quite popular - one of the all-time top-rated emulators for accuracy and ease of use, not to mention features that no other emulators have even now.

Then there's BASin, an IDE for creating Sinclair Spectrum software - also includes an emulator, with the IDE integrated into it:



It includes source editor, graphics/sprite editors, binary manipulation tools and a suite of debuggers that allow you watch what the BASIC interpreter (inside the emulated Spectrum) is doing at any level you choose.

The source for that is public domain.

Finally, my current project is SpecBAS - A "remake" of Sinclair BASIC with support for more colours, more speed, better sound, sprites and... well, everything I could think of. It's not terribly popular, but among those that are using it, it's well loved and a steady stream of requests for new features keeps my interest fresh.

The source for that is GPL.

There's currently some interest from a certain well-known figure's company in my work, and it looks like I'll be taking that job on soon - all based on the above projects. That project will likely be closed source though.

The way I see it is that I open my source up in case anyone wants to study it. It's unlikely that any of it will be popular enough for anyone else to want to fork or improve it, and as far as improvements go I'm more comfortable doing that myself - that's not to say that I wouldn't accept changes though.

D.

[Bastich]

ZXSpin is an awesome emulator

[Photon]

Vot made a joke about a joke handle, calm down people. And yeah, ZXSpin is fine.

If we're still on the generic topic of "please open-source all the things", well, some of the things are bound to be shit

It's just a silly request. As I said, if you want to further develop the source of software you really like, contact the original author and tell him the features you want to add by programming them. Chances are you will get the source. Make sure he hasn't already published it, various famous sites like github has nothing to do with the sources actually being online or not. So if you care, look first.

[wXR]

Ah, +1 for learning a new British-English word. ;-)

And Photon, I think you missed the whole discussion that was had here about licensing...

[Vot]

Originally Posted by Dunny

Well, yes, they are



There's numerous small utilities, but they're of no consequence. I created the Spectrum emulator ZXSpin in collaboration with a few members of the team, and we released the source when work stopped on that. It's quite popular - one of the all-time top-rated emulators for accuracy and ease of use, not to mention features that no other emulators have even now.



Then there's BASin, an IDE for creating Sinclair Spectrum software - also includes an emulator, with the IDE integrated into it:







It includes source editor, graphics/sprite editors, binary manipulation tools and a suite of debuggers that allow you watch what the BASIC interpreter (inside the emulated Spectrum) is doing at any level you choose.



The source for that is public domain.



Finally, my current project is SpecBAS - A "remake" of Sinclair BASIC with support for more colours, more speed, better sound, sprites and... well, everything I could think of. It's not terribly popular, but among those that are using it, it's well loved and a steady stream of requests for new features keeps my interest fresh.



The source for that is GPL.



There's currently some interest from a certain well-known figure's company in my work, and it looks like I'll be taking that job on soon - all based on the above projects. That project will likely be closed source though.



The way I see it is that I open my source up in case anyone wants to study it. It's unlikely that any of it will be popular enough for anyone else to want to fork or improve it, and as far as improvements go I'm more comfortable doing that myself - that's not to say that I wouldn't accept changes though.



D.

Cool will have to check it out (zxspin). Spectrums were pretty rare here in Australia.

[Vot]

Originally Posted by wXR

Please, Vot...

Lol... You understand humour right?

[wXR]

Yes, my bad. I thought you were just being rude and crude, but it turns out I was ignorant of the word "Dunny"... ;-)

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by wXR

Yes, my bad. I thought you were just being rude and crude, but it turns out I was ignorant of the word "Dunny"... ;-)

My name is Paul Dunn, hence "Dunny" is what I got called when I was a kid. It's also an Australian slang word for toilet. My avatar image is an amiga-ised picture of one of the objects from my favourite game of all time - Jet Set Willy.

Which coincidentally is a toilet, or Dunny.



D.

[copse]

Originally Posted by Dunny

I'm actually working on that at the moment - looks like I'll be helping with a new British initiative to get kids coding again, but it will unfortunately [i]not[i] be open sourced

Wouldn't it be the ultimate boost to a young kid who was working with this initiative, if they dug into the source code and fixed something that was really annoying to their peers. That's the kind of thing which builds a great programmer. To not open source in this case, seems a loss.

I grew up learning on BBC Model B's. We all had to learn how to write basic programs. Of course, who really learnt anything at that age? In this day and age you can get a toolstack that costs nothing and is open source as it needs to be and write an app that you can upload and sell.. it's so easy. That seems like a tremendously more useful learning opportunity.

[copse]

Originally Posted by Dunny

My name is Paul Dunn, hence "Dunny" is what I got called when I was a kid. It's also an Australian slang word for toilet. My avatar image is an amiga-ised picture of one of the objects from my favourite game of all time - Jet Set Willy.

Which coincidentally is a toilet, or Dunny.



D.

The night was dark and stormy,
The dunny light was dim,
I heard a crash, and then a splash,
By gosh, he's fallen in.

[copse]

Originally Posted by Photon

I'm all for reinventing the wheel. Each time it has been, it's become that bit better. If you think doing so is wasting programmers' valuable time, then don't ask the previous inventor to value the time he put in at zero.

I don't believe in the wheel.

I believe what you get instead is a slew of randomly shaped cogs and doodads. Mostly, what you get is a odd shaped lump that you have to awkwardly build or reshape your own code to fit in, then any further additions to your code have to be shaped around the "wheel" in more complex ways than they would otherwise have to have been. Often you can't change the "wheel" to be less awkward, because whomever you got it from occasionally fixes some of the more minor problems with it, and isn't interested in your fixes, and if you change it yourself without getting your changes into their original template "wheel", bringing in their fixes incurs more maintenance.

That's not to say I don't use other people's code, but rather that when I do, I do a cost/benefit analysis. And when I take my car in to get a new wheel, they get one that fits the car, and don't change the car to fit the wheel. The software wheel, is false advertising, but the peddler doesn't give you a refund after it's cost you money to deal with the flaws.