Idea for Amiga floppy drive emulator

[alexh]

@ T_hairy_bootson

You lamer! You've just reposted what retromaster speculated on his forum!

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

I dont like the system disk approach, it means you would have to quit whatever you were doing to put the next disk in if you ever got the queue system wrong.

It would be pretty much impossible to get the queue wrong if all disk images (for a single game) were in the same directory or archive and you just added that dir or archive. Under Workbench you could change the queue whenever you liked without rebooting.

This is an example of looking for a problem in a system which doesn't exist in actual usage.

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

Also it would be slow to load the "system disk".

Again, just reposting what someone else has commented on. Regardless that it is not true.

[Retro1234]

The UFE supports 2 drives so that would take care of 2 disk games

The HXC menu you insert disk one then what -You still need to use the buttons, LCD screen to insert disk 2?

:Both have there merits if you can bring up then Menu on UFE at any point then but UFE is over complicated, ease of use HxC wins

Of course HxC is the only one in production

[T_hairy_bootson]

So what? I cant agree with him? What he said sounds spot on. What you say sounds like the worst PITA idea for this system. Just like he said you have to plan ahead. I dont want to plan ahead. I just want to have quick access to a bunch of stuff otherwise the whole point of a floppy emulator is useless to me. Changing queues in workbench? Loading a system disk etc? Why?

Popup menu anytime to do what needs to be done and you are finished sounds much better to me. So installation might be a bit harder the benefits far out weigh the blind eject button system... oooh is that the right disk? I dont know... maybe it was the save disk... did I press it once or twice? oh damn whats it doing now? Then wait 5 minutes for it to try and load the wrong disk.

I'm glad the creator doesn't see it your way though.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

The UFE supports 2 drives so that would take care of 2 disk games

The HXC menu you insert disk one then what -You still need to use the buttons, LCD screen to insert disk 2?

:Both have there merits if you can bring up then Menu on UFE at any point then but UFE is over complicated, ease of use HxC wins

Of course HxC is the only one in production

The HxC Floppy Emulator is also able to emulate 2 disk drives.
You can change the current disk drive displayed on the lcd with one button.
With the manager floppy disk are managed by slot : each slot define the two disks drive.


And a small reminder :

(2007/2008):
http://atariamiga.free.fr/plateformes.php
[ Show youtube player ]

(2005):
http://www.sensi.org/~tnt23/megadrive/


The UFE design/idea/concept are mostly based on the SDiskEmul Floppy Emulator (sundance) and Amiga Floppy Emulator (tnt23).
The only new thing is the keyboard hack...

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

weigh the blind eject button system... oooh is that the right disk? I dont know... maybe it was the save disk... did I press it once or twice? oh damn whats it doing now? Then wait 5 minutes for it to try and load the wrong disk.

I'm glad the creator doesn't see it your way though.

Please look again the video and turn on the sound... The disk number is indicated with a led + a sound message... for a 4 floppies cycle, this is far enough, and doesn't need to badly hack your amiga.

I was just watching this thread, and I did not want to be involved. As hardware designers, I think we should refrain from directly entering into these kinds of discussions as we are inevitably biased.

First and foremost, I have absolutely no intention to make any profit out of UFE. I am not even sure that it would or could be made commercially available. So, I have no interest in entering into any kind of "marketing war" against any existing floppy emulator, be it HxC or anything else.

That out of the way, I'd like to clarify a few things, so that we can get our facts straight and prevent any misunderstandings:

• UFE uses absolutely no source code or circuitry from any previously existing floppy emulator. It is a completely independent design and implementation effort.
• Obviously, some of the design ideas behind UFE come from previously existing floppy emulators. But UFE is unique in the way it combines these ideas... And the implementation is backed by the most powerful hardware in a floppy emu to this date.
• If we were to call the UFE video overlay and keyboard control implementations "bad hacks", then perhaps we would have to consider some of the popular and legitimate Amiga add-ons such as the ide68k (plugs into 68k socket) or Indivision AGA (attaches over Lisa) as "bad hacks".
• The installation of UFE is completely solderless and reversible, so you can return your Amiga back to the exact same condition it was in before you installed UFE. Making the video and keyboard connections does not take more than a few of minutes.

So, if someone likes UFE, that's great, I hope I'll be able to make it available for them. If they do not, they can use one of the existing alternatives. Or perhaps they can even design and build their own! If you have the right resources, a floppy emulator is not a difficult project at all UFE took me about 3 months to get into its current state, and I have a daytime job (and not to mention World Cup 2010)

So, finally, I'd like to say that I am doing this entirely as a hobby and strictly for fun, and I'd like to keep it fun. So please, do not turn this discussion into a flame war, everyone hates those

[Retro1234]

Hello and welcome this thread isnt about playing you off each other -its about different ideas and all floppy emulators are very intresting and I think its a good thing theres a bit of choice.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by retromaster

I was just watching this thread, and I did not want to be involved. As hardware designers, I think we should refrain from directly entering into these kinds of discussions as we are inevitably biased.

Yes true...

Originally Posted by retromaster

If we were to call the UFE video overlay and keyboard control implementations "bad hacks", then perhaps we would have to consider some of the popular and legitimate Amiga add-ons such as the ide68k (plugs into 68k socket) or Indivision AGA (attaches over Lisa) as "bad hacks".

Maybe ;-) But this only my opinion, and to be honest i am not an Amiga "power user"

Originally Posted by retromaster

So, if someone likes UFE, that's great, I hope I'll be able to make it available for them. If they do not, they can use one of the existing alternatives. Or perhaps they can even design and build their own! If you have the right resources, a floppy emulator is not a difficult project at all UFE took me about 3 months to get into its current state, and I have a daytime job (and not to mention World Cup 2010)

Yes absolutely right! design it is easy and very fast. Finally this is just a special serializer ;-). (took 2 week to design the actual sd hxc floppy emulator...)

But the hard part is : Making something that can be produced in the right context (for example choice between smc and dil components. The second one is preferable for a DIY project, or a manual mounting process) and low cost (the cost is the key !), found someone able to make it at the right price (can be very hard, and this is mostly an opportunity problem), with the right process (to avoid bad surprise later/breakdown due to the production process), in the right quantities and time. (very dependent on the market)
And finally the user support (understand why this doesn't work in a particular condition, are there a true bug ? correct it and sometime years after the release of the device !) . And this is true for most product.

Here is a part of my experience on The HxC Floppy Emulator project.

Originally Posted by retromaster

So please, do not turn this discussion into a flame war, everyone hates those

I am not sure that everyone hates those when i read some comments.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

So what? I cant agree with him?

You can and if you had replied justifying how you came to agree (especially on how long it would take to load) then I would be apologising. However you didn't so I'm not

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

Just like he said you have to plan ahead. I dont want to plan ahead.

Am I the only one who doesn't see a big problem? You just choose what game you want to play and that is it, press the button when you want to swap to the next disk. A very large percentage of Amiga games are only two (or fewer) disks! There are exceptions, I am not that stubborn that I do not see the potential problem with blind queuing e.g. games like Dragon's Lair & Space Ace (although why you'd want to play these games on Amiga is another discussion) but all that trouble fitting video & keyboard into your computers just for a handful of titles? Maybe...

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

Changing queues in workbench?

Selecting disk image using an OS (workbench) application.

Originally Posted by T_hairy_bootson

Loading a system disk etc? Why?

My belief was that the cheaper the device is, requiring the least amount of modification and customisation (i.e. non) possible then the more practical it is (especially cross platforms) and the more saleable it is. The more saleable it is the more likely it will become a commercial product and you'll actually be able to buy one.

But I do understand that the simplest, cheapest product is not always the best nor most successful.

Still, it is very nice to see someone developing something that stirs people's imagination.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by alexh

Am I the only one who doesn't see a big problem?

No don't worry .
There are a lot of people using this system on others computers.
(I hope to release the Amiga version soon)

Otherwise :

Important update of the SD HxC Floppy Emulator for Amiga users:

-> Write support added for Amiga !

22/08/2010: Firmware SD HxCFloppyEmulator v1.3.0.0
- Amiga Write support added :

Note to the Revision B PCB owners :

To activate this new features you need to add a Microchip 23K256 SPI SRAM chip and 4 resistors.
The connection to do is :

23K256 pin 1 -> 220ohms resistor -> PIC18F4620 pin 22
23K256 pin 5 -> 220ohms resistor -> PIC18F4620 pin 27
23K256 pin 6 -> 220ohms resistor -> PIC18F4620 pin 28
23K256 pin 2 -> 220ohms resistor -> PIC18F4620 pin 29
23K256 pin 8 & 7 -> VCC3.3V (this voltage can be found at the capacitor under the sdcard connector or at the output of the regulator)
23K256 pin 4 -> GND
23K256 pin 3 -> Not connected.

(a 100nF capacitor is also recommended at the pin 8 of the 23K256)

After this modification you should see the message "SRAM OK" at power up.

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_...Floppyemulator

[Paul_s]

Originally Posted by Jeff_HxC2001

No don't worry .
There are a lot of people using this system on others computers.
(I hope to release the Amiga version soon)

Otherwise :

Important update of the SD HxC Floppy Emulator for Amiga users:

-> Write support added for Amiga !



http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_...Floppyemulator

Jeff, if I were a woman I'd send naked pictures of myself right now Can't wait to get hold of one that does read/write

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by Paul_s

if I were a woman I'd send naked pictures of myself right now

shame

[Jeff_HxC2001]

First user feedback :

A real floppy disk copied to the sdcard file image :-) :
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]

[telbee]

This may be a silly question - but is it possible that this would work on a BBC B or BBC Master? None of the floppy emus I've seen so far cater for it.

Cheers
T

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by telbee

This may be a silly question - but is it possible that this would work on a BBC B or BBC Master? None of the floppy emus I've seen so far cater for it.

Cheers
T

Yes this should be possible. I have just to add the BBC support to the software.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Finally i managed to port the file selector software to Amiga:




Rev B & C Hardware are supported. You have just to get the lastest firmware update and file selector software on the project website:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_....html#download

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Hi

New Rev C SD HxC Floppy Emulator Preorder :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=180592972686

and a new webstore is now open :

http://www.lotharek.pl/

http://lotharek.pl/null/product/info/3


Project webpage :

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator

[chusete]

Originally Posted by Jeff_HxC2001

Finally i managed to port the file selector software to Amiga:

Hi Jeff, the file selector it's very cool and works very well, only a little detail:

When you click the alt key for select a slot, you must click very fast the key or you select without want multiple slots.

If I don't remember bad, in workbench you can change that preference decreasing the key repetition value.

Thank you

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by chusete

Hi Jeff, the file selector it's very cool and works very well, only a little detail:

When you click the alt key for select a slot, you must click very fast the key or you select without want multiple slots.

If I don't remember bad, in workbench you can change that preference decreasing the key repetition value.

Thank you

Thanks for your feedback.
This is a know issue and i will correct this in the next release.

[chusete]

Thank you Jeff, and what about the writing speed? It's a little slow in the tests:

http://amigax.com/2010/11/24/how-wor...ator-in-amiga/

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by chusete

Thank you Jeff, and what about the writing speed? It's a little slow in the tests:

http://amigax.com/2010/11/24/how-wor...ator-in-amiga/

The response is .... a firmware update :

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_...r_firmware.zip

25/01/2011: Firmware SD HxCFloppyEmulator v1.5.0.0
- SDcard : Init frequency corrected

- SDcard : Multi sector read & Write access added.
-> SDCard access time improved (Slow sdcard issues corrected)

- Some important parts of the floppy write support fully rewritten : Important codes improvement (speed & size)
-> MFM ISO Sector write support speed & code size improvement.
-> Amiga write support speed & code size improvement .
General result: Faster write data throughput.

- New MFM/DD write support bitrate added.
-> 300kbits/s (256/512/1024 bytes sectors).

- FM write support added.
-> 128bytes sector SD/FM write support added.
-> 256bytes sector SD/FM write support added.
-> 512bytes sector SD/FM write support added.
-> 1024bytes sector SD/FM write support added.
-> SD/FM write support bitrate : 250kbits/s, 300kbits/s & 500kbits/s

- E-mu write support added (E-mu emulator, E-mu emulator II,...)
Note : Need the Rev C SD HxC Floppy Emulator hardware!
-> 3584bytes sector FM E-emu write support added.
-> E-mu write support bitrate : 312kbits/s

A big Thanks to Kris VC / esynthesist (http://www.emxp.net/) for all tests done on this firwmare
with the E-mu Emulator & E-mu Emulator II.
Without this great help, releasing this new feature wouldn't be possible.

- Two floppy drive emulation improvement/bug corrected
-> The two virtual floppy disk drive can have different bitrate now.
(example : an 1.44MB floppy disk in the first disk drive and a 720KB in the second disk drive.)

- SDCard HxC Floppy emulator settings (sound/blacklight...) are now stored into the eeprom
and used at power up. At power up the last known settings are used.

Also a good sdcard may also help a little.