English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 18 January 2020, 18:26   #21
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 44
Posts: 5,260
Update.

I can't get XWE editor 1.16 to work on Win 10: I keep getting errors (list index out of bound ---> crash)

Without it I cannot unpack EYE.RES (the package of EoB 3 data files)

But it turns out I do have already all the game files unpacked (I don't remember if they came that way or I did it at some point).

the chargen directory contains the CSP files for the interface, and a portrait .bmp file, that I cannopt however open with anything (it's not a known kind of bmp file).

Can you confirm the part about the bmp file? Or your copy is viewable?

...

If there was a way to easily unpack export and repack graphics and palettes from EYE res, I would gladly rehaul basically every graphic that wasn't borrowed from Westwood; many of the new ones indeed are crappy. (by memory: the "books", the new portraits, the garbled splashes of random pixels for "bushes"... in general, no unifying sense or consistency with the new pixelart).

Last edited by Marcuz; 18 January 2020 at 18:45.
Marcuz is offline  
Old 18 January 2020, 20:59   #22
Sleeper Grey
keeper of the Stone Gem
Sleeper Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Saint Petersburg
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcuz View Post
Update.

I can't get XWE editor 1.16 to work on Win 10: I keep getting errors (list index out of bound ---> crash)

Without it I cannot unpack EYE.RES (the package of EoB 3 data files)

But it turns out I do have already all the game files unpacked (I don't remember if they came that way or I did it at some point).

the chargen directory contains the CSP files for the interface, and a portrait .bmp file, that I cannopt however open with anything (it's not a known kind of bmp file).

Can you confirm the part about the bmp file? Or your copy is viewable?

...

If there was a way to easily unpack export and repack graphics and palettes from EYE res, I would gladly rehaul basically every graphic that wasn't borrowed from Westwood; many of the new ones indeed are crappy. (by memory: the "books", the new portraits, the garbled splashes of random pixels for "bushes"... in general, no unifying sense or consistency with the new pixelart).
Win10 might be the problem with XWE unpacking EYE.RES but there is another little matter. XWE 1.16 "last beta" must be used for EYE.RES...
(Otherwise XWE might give errors with EYE.RES even without Win10 complications.)

(My main machine is still XP as I play only KotOR-1 huh...)

Yes, the CHARPICS.BMP file in Chargen directory is viewable. With XWE "official beta". It is a packed file like EYE.RES and it has 90 entries. Last 8 are black/empty. Others contain all EoB-3 portraits - but in another color palette.

The palette is here, in Chargen directory. But it is not included in XWE set of palettes so the portraits here can not be viewed in right colors in XWE.

IMHO this is a minor problem as the "main" portraits, used in the game itself and not character generation, are packed into EYE.RES itself, not this CHARPICS.BMP.

(But eventually one should edit this CHARPICS.BMP also. - To give all portraits the new edited look both in character generation and in game)

Ah, whatever EoB-3 authors -did- borrow from games 1-2 is crappy too

And really needs much editing.

I'll give more samples a bit later and answer your other message.

P.S.
with XWE versions malfunction, please ask and I'll answer if I can.

Just now I can say that's great you have experimented with EoB-1 portraits actually getting some into the game!

My EoB-1 version was a bit discussed here:

https://www.gog.com/forum/forgotten_...f_the_beholder

(My purpose was to beat the ignominy of having no Stone Gem and the ignominy of crappy NPCs. That was never intended to be so, really.)
Sleeper Grey is offline  
Old 18 January 2020, 21:30   #23
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 44
Posts: 5,260
I've just read that GoG thread, where you actually also referenced an old thread here, about converting savegames XD

Are you the creator of the 1.9 version of EoB 1? Quite in-depth stuff!
Marcuz is offline  
Old 19 January 2020, 19:33   #24
Sleeper Grey
keeper of the Stone Gem
Sleeper Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Saint Petersburg
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcuz View Post
I've just read that GoG thread, where you actually also referenced an old thread here, about converting savegames XD

Are you the creator of the 1.9 version of EoB 1? Quite in-depth stuff!
Indeed, it is I And it's a big topic but yes, the EoB Trilogy is far from perfection, yet.

As I started this topic, part-III is a problem: either there is no Amiga version, or there is no converter from Amiga Party to PC DOS Party.

And if you have a favourite PC party you transfer into game III and see these ugly portraits...
That causes revulsion from the game.

Nobody managed to do something about it for 25 years. Great.
It shows how vulnerable the gaming community really is.

(If a project is profitable, all updates are available. If not, not in 25 years any progress is attained.)

So yes, I think something should be done about that.


As for EoB-1, so many people were looking for the Stone Gem but the idea of the Demo version item.dat came only to me, somehow.
While gaming community was searching for it, no mighty specialist did one step to help.

So I did it, even without introducing any bugs.

EoB-III should get some treatment too, indeed.

P.S.
I'll surely post more EoB-III portrait study. So that the problem become obvious - and also my vision of correcting it.


P.P.S.
Ah, I had to quote it. As there are so many ~dreams~ and so little done, indeed.

One thing is obvious: portrait correction is a must for any EoB-III version, Amiga or DOS.
Sleeper Grey is offline  
Old 19 January 2020, 20:31   #25
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 44
Posts: 5,260
As far as I understood of the savegame structure, there is no pure conversion possible between the savegames (pc to Amiga and viceversa, and EoB2 to 3).

Endianess is simple to solve, but the items have their hex code dependent also on some obscure (from the savegame, at least) factor, so that item A has a code in one place and a different code in another.

The only possible thing for a converter is to refer each item to a item.list, and translate it to a different game via a conversion table.

But even that is not error free: a part of the items still get corrupted, but I don't understand whether for different items.dat list or whatever reason: I've tried manually to do that many times, as described here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=833467#post833467

Character portraits are a different thing, easier to do, provided unpacker / repacker works: I'm sure there have been tools working for that, but recently, as I told you yesterday, I had no luck.
Marcuz is offline  
Old 20 January 2020, 02:43   #26
Sleeper Grey
keeper of the Stone Gem
Sleeper Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Saint Petersburg
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcuz View Post
As far as I understood of the savegame structure, there is no pure conversion possible between the savegames (pc to Amiga and viceversa, and EoB2 to 3).

Endianess is simple to solve, but the items have their hex code dependent also on some obscure (from the savegame, at least) factor, so that item A has a code in one place and a different code in another.

The only possible thing for a converter is to refer each item to a item.list, and translate it to a different game via a conversion table.

But even that is not error free: a part of the items still get corrupted, but I don't understand whether for different items.dat list or whatever reason: I've tried manually to do that many times, as described here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=833467#post833467

Character portraits are a different thing, easier to do, provided unpacker / repacker works: I'm sure there have been tools working for that, but recently, as I told you yesterday, I had no luck.
To me, "converting" party from Amiga (EoB2) party to DOS looks very much like common savegame hacking.

We take some EoB-2 DOS savegame (maybe new game) and then "cheat".
By putting into it our favourite characters name/race/class/experience values.

EoB-2 might have a weird way to code items. But what if we put our "old" Amiga items into the DOS save according to this table?

https://github.com/iliak/dungeoneye/...on/EOB2HEX.TXT

Perhaps the codes in your .rar document are the same.

This would prepare a "EoB-2" party with all our intended values.

Then we run EoB-3 "CHARCOPY.EXE". And voi la, we have our party now transferable into EoB-3 DOS.

Is there any problem with this way?

*

Another matter, how a standard EoB-2 to EoB-3 "CHARCOPY.EXE" utility works? Somehow it decodes all inventory items.
It has its own .dat file, perhaps with the same table to decode items...

There is a minor ignominy/problem with it though. I think I should put it to light...

In EoB-2 we get Brahma boots (+1?) and one Helm clearly marked +1 belonging to Calandra. (Among her armor set, in the cell dungeon.)

+1 helmets are found in EoB-3 and they work - but this one from EoB-2 is not transferred.

Maybe transferring Boots+1 would also give 1 point of armor class, in EoB-3.

Someone could look at this "Charcopy" transfer program...
Sleeper Grey is offline  
Old 20 January 2020, 03:42   #27
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 44
Posts: 5,260
Quote:
Is there any problem with this way?
Yes, as I wrote, Amiga and DOS tables, regardless of Endianess aren't 1:1 and there might be additional coding variables; I cannot know for sure about that.

Empirically, I tried, and it doesn't work for all items:

I've created two savegames at the start of the game, one in Amiga, one in DOS; then I did the thing you describe, by swapping the HEX bits because of Endianess between the two (ex: "b2 01 Long Sword +5" in one format becomes "01 b2 Long Sword +5" in the other): I would say that 60% of the items only translate correctly.

I urge you to try yourself, a few years passed and I might remember things inaccurately.


Quote:
Another matter, how a standard EoB-2 to EoB-3 "CHARCOPY.EXE" utility works? Somehow it decodes all inventory items.
It has its own .dat file, perhaps with the same table to decode items...
CHARCOPY likely works comparing the item list of EoB 2 to the list of EoB 3, it doesn't really translate an item, it just checks what item corresponds to the source one in the destination list.

Which is different of course. But could be limited in the number of entries as the previous one (255 max items, but I don't know for sure); therefore devs might have worked with the available space, by removing items that could not fit (overwriting them with needed ones).

So, if you want to have different items in EoB 3 you have to edit that game list specifically, which is not an error free process: as there are multiple instances - in any of the three games - of many items, like (from the list you linked):

5f 00 Amulet of Life
62 00 Amulet of Life
85 01 Amulet of Life
b0 01 Amulet of Life

You cannot know what "destination" item the devs intended for importing of a source item, and for what reasons, maybe balancing or maybe inflaction or something else.

Also, - this is related to EoB 1 and 2: I don't know how it works in 3 (if differently) - there are limits to how many items you place on the floor, because of indexing, and additionally - maybe - memory buffer constraints, and linking to those, I think: if you put two items with the same code on the floor of a level, you might (or might not) crash the game; if you put many, odd things will happen.

The easiest analogue I can make is from Aeon of Sands, of which I know the skeleton, having designed the game: any item (every game object) has a index number, which is fixed, and a ID number, which is created by the game engine at the moment when the item is spawned in game.

you can spawn in the editor multiple identical items, (with the same Index numbers) but then the engine creates a different, unique ID for them, so the game works.

This is true not only for items you spawn in the engine (which in EoB would be like HEX editing them in the inventories) but also for items that are spawned in game: thrown items, spells (which are items) etc.

In EoB seomething similar must occur, but being no coder, I don't know / understand what happen exactly. It could be, for instance, that instead of having IDs the item spawned in the world get positions in memory or whatever; With the complication that instead of having long ID strings they have two HEX bytes only.

So, for that you need the help of a coder, as CFOU! suggested.

Whatever: the first thing you need to do is to confirm, empirically what items you can translate by save editing between the various game versions.

Last edited by Marcuz; 20 January 2020 at 03:51.
Marcuz is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Party Eye of the Beholder II from Amiga in Eye of the Beholder III on PC vrascio support.Games 20 16 August 2012 12:52
Eye of the Beholder mai support.Games 24 15 May 2010 20:44
Eye Of The Beholder Andy 01 request.Old Rare Games 0 05 October 2008 17:52
Eye of the Beholder... Dizzy Nostalgia & memories 7 13 July 2006 04:32
Eye of the Beholder AKH support.Games 2 28 December 2003 22:55

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.06947 seconds with 15 queries