Broken Apollo 060 (upped from 040)

8bitbubsy · 20 February 2010, 15:44

So...

XC68060RC50 50MHz

Voltage regulator: Check! (Measured: Input: 4.72v - Output: 3.28v, but not sure if the pinout is correct - any schematics?)
MECH131: Check!
5.60 ROM (32 pin): Check!
RAM: Tested OK!
Chip sockets cleaned: Check!
50MHz oscillator: Tested OK!

Jumper settings:
CLK: 060
RAM: ON
SCSI: OFF
060: ON

CLKEN (resistor): GND

No boot. Not even Early Startup Screen...

Chain · 20 February 2010, 16:15

if that eprom is from me (probably?) then it was tested in 1260 and worked fine.

try to remove simm stick and ram jumper

but what confuses me most is your 5V line in your miggy, 4.75V looks really too low.
(3.28V output from regulaotr is fine imo) Are you using original psu?

Zetr0 · 20 February 2010, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

EDIT: Hmm! If I kind of hit it gently while it's on, I get some flicker on the screen, then I loose vsync signal (indivision)...
Definitely some bad contact somewhere, I'll check more.. Tried to hold it while turning on, still nothing.

It is just my in my opinion, I really dont think you should be doing this type of work.

8bitbubsy · 20 February 2010, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chain

if that eprom is from me (probably?) then it was tested in 1260 and worked fine.

try to remove simm stick and ram jumper

but what confuses me most is your 5V line in your miggy, 4.75V looks really too low.
(3.28V output from regulaotr is fine imo) Are you using original psu?

It's an ATX PSU... 360W. Measured again, it was 4.68v, not 4.75v (I wrote wrong).
Yep, both the EPROM and regulator is from you.

Zetr0: I know.. But I'm just so frustrated and sad.

Also, I'm being gentle. Believe me.

Zetr0 · 20 February 2010, 16:40

@Bubsy

When upgrading an Apollo 040 to 060 - even with the MACH131 chips there is NO garantee, although most will take an 060, some WONT, I have a card that wont and that has a MACH131 -

you need to take baby steps, strip you A1200 to bare essentials, strip the accelerator to bare essential (no ram)

You configuration jumper SHOULD be on 040 NOT 060 (this is how my A1260 is set)
its most likely this jumper and you are trying to run the Fast Ram at 50Mhz and that just ISNT going to happen - at best you could for would be 33 mhz -

This is why you need to set the RAM to run at half the speed of clock - hence 25mhz from a 50mhz clock.

try this... and STOP hitting the machine!

8bitbubsy · 20 February 2010, 17:03

Tried no RAM stick and RAM jumper OFF.. No luck....
Zetr0 jumper stuff: no luck...
And Cosmos kept my 040 CPU and destroyed my 040 boot ROM when he did the job, sigh...

I feel like taking a beer and just give a shit about Amigas for the rest of the evening, but I'm all out of it

My A1200 is stripped now, still black screen and no floppy "trr trr" sound (nor early startup if I press both mouse buttons)

8bitbubsy · 20 February 2010, 19:30

Bump

Okay I have three theories for it not working:
1: The PSU delivers quite a weak 5v rail (4.68-4.72v measured)
2: The 060 CPU may be broken (?)
3: The Apollo card may be incompatible (?)

And:
Should the CLKEN resistor be on CLK or GND..?
It's an XC68060RC50, as told earlier.

- Olav

Damion · 20 February 2010, 21:04

CLKEN should go to CLK (and the mechanical jumper like Zetr0 said), but 4.6v is much too low. If you can verify that with another meter I'd definitely start there. Juice at the floppy port also might be a good idea, my Apollo is very unstable otherwise.

How about trying another oscillator? I have some that simply don't jive in the Apollo, yet work perfectly in my other accelerators.

8bitbubsy · 20 February 2010, 21:12

Tried two different 50MHz oscillators, still a black screen.
I read that on a 50Mhz 060, CLKEN should be GND and the CLK jumper to 060...
Set to 040 if over or equals 66MHz 060 (+ CLKEN to CLK)...
Am I right? I'd like to know exactly how it's supposed to be. Let me know one last time if this is wrong!
Anyways, I'll try another PSU tomorrow

Sleep time now, good night.

Damion · 20 February 2010, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

Tried two different 50MHz oscillators, still a black screen.
I read that on a 50Mhz 060, CLKEN should be GND and the CLK jumper to 060...
Set to 040 if over or equals 66MHz 060 (+ CLKEN to CLK)...
Am I right? I'd like to know exactly how it's supposed to be. Let me know one last time if this is wrong!
Anyways, I'll try another PSU tomorrow

Sleep time now, good night.

You are right, the 50MHz cards were delivered with the CLKEN -> GND, mechanical jumper at "060". In that case, CPU and RAM run synchronously at 50MHz.

The problem is that the Apollo memory controller was very aggressive - 50MHz allowed for outstanding performance, at the expense of making card incredibly fussy about what SIMMs it decides to work with, and very little chance of overclocking.

Setting the jumper to 040 halves the bus speed, which reduces memory performance considerably, but makes it easier to find working SIMMs and easily allows overclocking to 80MHz (while still having great memory performance, and not stressing the card's logic by overclocking it). The 040 and 060 have slightly different bus operation (040's divider is fixed AFAIK, along with different pinouts) which is why the resistor position needs to be changed in addition to the jumper setting.

Damion · 20 February 2010, 21:48

ugh, double post

Zetr0 · 20 February 2010, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damion

ugh, double post

to be fair I like the first one, so this was also good =D

rkauer · 21 February 2010, 01:23

With just 4.68V on the +5V rail doubtfully the bare A1200 will turn on.

Replace the PSU and try again from scratch, adding each bit at a time, starting with the floppy drive, then the accelerator and at last the Indivision & HD/CF.

Photon · 21 February 2010, 04:03

Did you say the A1200 didn't boot properly even without the accelerator inserted Bubsy? Also, 4.7V is low-ish. I've gone through many an arcade PCB that wouldn't boot without 5V or higher.

It could be a drain due to a faulty chip on the mobo (if accelerator is out). If you have a non-switched (recommended) PSU, or a switched CPU with a patch resistor, check its value. If you have a good old heavy brick 36W A500 PSU, check the mobo with that, then insert accelerator.

8bitbubsy · 21 February 2010, 08:02

The A1200 runs fine with this ATX PSU, also the A1200 runs fine without the acc (or with my Microbotics 030 acc)...

Measurement from ATX 360w PSU from amiga power socket under load:
Naked A1200 with Apollo: 4.78v
A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + Apollo: 4.76v

Naked A1200 without anything at all connected: 4.88v
A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF: 4.86v

Naked A1200 with 030 acc: 4.87v
A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + 030 acc: 4.86v

Measurement from ATX 360w PSU from Apollo voltage regulator under load:
Apollo voltage regulator input: 4.68v
Apollo voltage regulator output: 3.28v

Measurement from A500 power brick from amiga power socket under load:
Naked A1200 with Apollo: 5.04v
A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + Apollo: 5.04v
Naked A1200 without anything at all connected: 5.04v
A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF: 5.04v
Naked A1200 with 030 acc: 5.04v
A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + 030: 5.04v

Measurement from A500 power brick from Apollo voltage regulator under load:
Apollo voltage regulator input: 4.96v
Apollo voltage regulator output: 3.29v

Phew... Done measuring.

The Apollo doesn't work with the stable A500 PSU either, though.

Dimlow · 21 February 2010, 09:36

Looks like its Fecked, Send it to Me

Ill send you £10.

8bitbubsy · 21 February 2010, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimlow

Send it to Me

Ill send you £10.

Very funny..

It worked just fine with the 040/40MHz it came with.

Matt020 · 21 February 2010, 12:19

How do you know that the 060 actually works?

A genuine question.

Zetr0 · 21 February 2010, 12:56

@8bitbubsy

to help solve your problem you will need -

1. To know what motherboard revision you have
2. Test card on a different motherboard

now onto the gritty stuff

1. change CPU to known working one.

2. change cpu to 040 and ROM to 040 compatible.

To be honest with you bub, if changing the 060 cpu, then you best option would be to turn it back to an 040.

then sell it on, save your pennies for a working 060.

8bitbubsy · 21 February 2010, 13:03

I'll try to burn a new boot ROM first... Also, maybe I can get the 040 back from Cosmos and test - if that one works, the soldering is OK...
We'll see what I can do.

Motherboard rev: 1D.4, don't have another A1200 to test on yet.

20 February 2010, 15:44	#1
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,708	Broken Apollo 060 (upped from 040) So... XC68060RC50 50MHz Voltage regulator: Check! (Measured: Input: 4.72v - Output: 3.28v, but not sure if the pinout is correct - any schematics?) MECH131: Check! 5.60 ROM (32 pin): Check! RAM: Tested OK! Chip sockets cleaned: Check! 50MHz oscillator: Tested OK! Jumper settings: CLK: 060 RAM: ON SCSI: OFF 060: ON CLKEN (resistor): GND No boot. Not even Early Startup Screen... Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 20 February 2010 at 21:11.

20 February 2010, 17:03	#6
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,708	Tried no RAM stick and RAM jumper OFF.. No luck.... Zetr0 jumper stuff: no luck... And Cosmos kept my 040 CPU and destroyed my 040 boot ROM when he did the job, sigh... I feel like taking a beer and just give a shit about Amigas for the rest of the evening, but I'm all out of it My A1200 is stripped now, still black screen and no floppy "trr trr" sound (nor early startup if I press both mouse buttons) Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 20 February 2010 at 19:36.

20 February 2010, 19:30	#7
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,708	Bump Okay I have three theories for it not working: 1: The PSU delivers quite a weak 5v rail (4.68-4.72v measured) 2: The 060 CPU may be broken (?) 3: The Apollo card may be incompatible (?) And: Should the CLKEN resistor be on CLK or GND..? It's an XC68060RC50, as told earlier. - Olav Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 20 February 2010 at 19:36.

21 February 2010, 08:02	#15
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,708	The A1200 runs fine with this ATX PSU, also the A1200 runs fine without the acc (or with my Microbotics 030 acc)... Measurement from ATX 360w PSU from amiga power socket under load: Naked A1200 with Apollo: 4.78v A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + Apollo: 4.76v Naked A1200 without anything at all connected: 4.88v A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF: 4.86v Naked A1200 with 030 acc: 4.87v A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + 030 acc: 4.86v Measurement from ATX 360w PSU from Apollo voltage regulator under load: Apollo voltage regulator input: 4.68v Apollo voltage regulator output: 3.28v Measurement from A500 power brick from amiga power socket under load: Naked A1200 with Apollo: 5.04v A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + Apollo: 5.04v Naked A1200 without anything at all connected: 5.04v A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF: 5.04v Naked A1200 with 030 acc: 5.04v A1200 + Indivision + floppy drive + CF + 030: 5.04v Measurement from A500 power brick from Apollo voltage regulator under load: Apollo voltage regulator input: 4.96v Apollo voltage regulator output: 3.29v Phew... Done measuring. The Apollo doesn't work with the stable A500 PSU either, though. Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 21 February 2010 at 08:48.

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20 February 2010, 16:15	#2
Chain A-Collector, repairments Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Rep. Age: 50 Posts: 1,536	if that eprom is from me (probably?) then it was tested in 1260 and worked fine. try to remove simm stick and ram jumper but what confuses me most is your 5V line in your miggy, 4.75V looks really too low. (3.28V output from regulaotr is fine imo) Are you using original psu?

20 February 2010, 16:40	#5
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Bubsy When upgrading an Apollo 040 to 060 - even with the MACH131 chips there is NO garantee, although most will take an 060, some WONT, I have a card that wont and that has a MACH131 - you need to take baby steps, strip you A1200 to bare essentials, strip the accelerator to bare essential (no ram) You configuration jumper SHOULD be on 040 NOT 060 (this is how my A1260 is set) its most likely this jumper and you are trying to run the Fast Ram at 50Mhz and that just ISNT going to happen - at best you could for would be 33 mhz - This is why you need to set the RAM to run at half the speed of clock - hence 25mhz from a 50mhz clock. try this... and STOP hitting the machine!

20 February 2010, 21:04	#8
Damion Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: US Posts: 315	CLKEN should go to CLK (and the mechanical jumper like Zetr0 said), but 4.6v is much too low. If you can verify that with another meter I'd definitely start there. Juice at the floppy port also might be a good idea, my Apollo is very unstable otherwise. How about trying another oscillator? I have some that simply don't jive in the Apollo, yet work perfectly in my other accelerators.

20 February 2010, 21:12	#9
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,708	Tried two different 50MHz oscillators, still a black screen. I read that on a 50Mhz 060, CLKEN should be GND and the CLK jumper to 060... Set to 040 if over or equals 66MHz 060 (+ CLKEN to CLK)... Am I right? I'd like to know exactly how it's supposed to be. Let me know one last time if this is wrong! Anyways, I'll try another PSU tomorrow Sleep time now, good night.

20 February 2010, 21:48	#11
Damion Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: US Posts: 315	ugh, double post

21 February 2010, 01:23	#13
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	With just 4.68V on the +5V rail doubtfully the bare A1200 will turn on. Replace the PSU and try again from scratch, adding each bit at a time, starting with the floppy drive, then the accelerator and at last the Indivision & HD/CF.

21 February 2010, 04:03	#14
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,602	Did you say the A1200 didn't boot properly even without the accelerator inserted Bubsy? Also, 4.7V is low-ish. I've gone through many an arcade PCB that wouldn't boot without 5V or higher. It could be a drain due to a faulty chip on the mobo (if accelerator is out). If you have a non-switched (recommended) PSU, or a switched CPU with a patch resistor, check its value. If you have a good old heavy brick 36W A500 PSU, check the mobo with that, then insert accelerator.

21 February 2010, 09:36	#16
Dimlow Likes to be thought of as Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kent,UK Age: 55 Posts: 529	Looks like its Fecked, Send it to Me Ill send you £10.

21 February 2010, 12:19	#18
Matt020 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: West Australia Age: 47 Posts: 210	How do you know that the 060 actually works? A genuine question.

21 February 2010, 12:56	#19
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@8bitbubsy to help solve your problem you will need - 1. To know what motherboard revision you have 2. Test card on a different motherboard now onto the gritty stuff 1. change CPU to known working one. 2. change cpu to 040 and ROM to 040 compatible. To be honest with you bub, if changing the 060 cpu, then you best option would be to turn it back to an 040. then sell it on, save your pennies for a working 060.

21 February 2010, 13:03	#20
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,708	I'll try to burn a new boot ROM first... Also, maybe I can get the 040 back from Cosmos and test - if that one works, the soldering is OK... We'll see what I can do. Motherboard rev: 1D.4, don't have another A1200 to test on yet.

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