A-Max disks? - Page 64

Supamax · 29 May 2014, 03:53

Hi Toni,
I don't know if you're referring to me (you probably are).

You're right, but... yesterday I made a very long read of this thread (it took many hours) and in post #1258 I made a summary of some interesting points (most are empirical, but that's the way we had to make some progresses).
At the end of it, however, I reported what I discovered years ago: Converter v7.0 worked absolutely flawless (reading and writing on adf/disk) for me in WinUAE, and the utility (Converter v7.2) I uploaded to the Zone can be tested by Jim (if he wants) or by anyone wanting to test it.

JimDrew · 29 May 2014, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Jim,
please, could you test the ADF I put in the Zone days ago?
(Emplant Disk Converter II v7.2 (WB2.1).rar)

I feel confident it works under WinUAE.
After all, it perfectly worked for me in 2009, for many A-Max Extended ADFs (see my post above).

I did this, extended ADF or not, it does not work for making an image. You can create a disk from a Converter II image file. However, if you try to make an image of that disk (which works under emulations) it does not work. There is absolutely no disk reading capability at all. I use different code for verifying than I do for reading. Again, writes and verifies work, reading does not.

Keep in mind that my code doesn't care about trackdisk.device. It bangs on the hardware directly, after locking out the drive from AmigaDOS. There is no such thing as extended ADF or what have you with my software. To create an image it opens an AmigaDOS file, bangs on PAULA and the CIAs directly, using both direct access and DMA to spool the data to a buffer which is then shifted to the proper skew and stored in the file. What is failing is the very first read routine that is used to determine the format of the disk.

Supamax · 29 May 2014, 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

I did this, extended ADF or not, it does not work for making an image. You can create a disk from the image. However, if you try to make an image of that disk (which works under emulations) it does not work. There is absolutely no reading capability at all. I use different code for verifying than I do for reading. Again, writes and verifies work, reading does not.

Could you then test the floppy I just uploaded to the Zone?
"Emplant Disk Converter II v7.0 (WB2.1) - PAL WORKING.rar"

That's the exact version I used to make 17 working A-Max Extended ADFs.
After making them, I made a new image with the Converter (it worked for me, I'm sure

) and I compared that image with the "source" image: they resulted 100% byte-by-byte equal. I know that because I uploaded those 17 adfs after being 100% sure they were perfect.

As soon as I have time I'll test it myself again, and if all goes well (why shouldn't? I'm telling you I did seventeen disks and I double verified them one by one...!) I'll give you full details about WinUAE config etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

Keep in mind that my code doesn't care about trackdisk.device. It bangs on the hardware directly, after locking out the drive from AmigaDOS. There is no such thing as extended ADF or what have you with my software. To create an image it opens an AmigaDOS file, bangs on PAULA and the CIAs directly, using both direct access and DMA to spool the data to a buffer which is then shifted to the proper skew and stored in the file. What is failing is the very first read routine that is used to determine the format of the disk.

I don't know what to say

.
You're making me having doubts... but it worked, I'm sure!
With the Converter I wrote the image1 to adf, then from adf to image2, then compared the two images and they were identical... and I did that with every A-Amax disk (adf) I "released"...!
Damn... I'll make new tests, ok.

JimDrew · 29 May 2014, 05:14

I could have something "off" with my WinUAE. I will try a fresh install and config.

Supamax · 29 May 2014, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

I could have something "off" with my WinUAE. I will try a fresh install and config.

Ok, thanks.
I'll have to make some new tests too, because the WinUAE release I used in 2009 was obviously much older than the actual, and (maybe or maybe not) something could have changed in the meantime.

Toni Wilen · 29 May 2014, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Hi Toni,
I don't know if you're referring to me (you probably are).

Not you, everyone who have said "it does not work" or some variant of it (related to WinUAE) without any details at all..

JimDrew · 01 June 2014, 23:00

Quote:

Could you then test the floppy I just uploaded to the Zone?
"Emplant Disk Converter II v7.0 (WB2.1) - PAL WORKING.rar"

Tried this today. Reading that disk in DF0: does not work. The imager does not recognize the disk type. This disk works fine under Workbench, but the converter can not read it. I can still write a converter image to a disk, just not the other way around.

Supamax · 02 June 2014, 00:18

Hi Jim,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Could you then test the floppy I just uploaded to the Zone?
"Emplant Disk Converter II v7.0 (WB2.1) - PAL WORKING.rar"

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

Tried this today. Reading that disk in DF0: does not work.

What do you mean with "Reading that disk in DF0: does not work."?
The floppy I uploaded (Emplant Disk Converter II v7.0 (WB2.1) - PAL WORKING) is an AmigaDOS disk containing the Converter 7.0 program. It's not an A-MAX-formatted disk.

Quote:

The imager does not recognize the disk type. This disk works fine under Workbench, but the converter can not read it. I can still write a converter image to a disk, just not the other way around.

Hmmm, what you wrote above makes me think I didn't explain myself well.
Perhaps you thought that the Disk Converter v7.2 and 7.0 ADFs I uploaded to the Zone were A-Max floppies, which they are not. They are normal AmigaDOS disks, bootable, with WB + Converter.

Ok, let's do this.
I uploaded to the Zone a .rar file (A-MAX Extended ADFs.rar) containing many Extended ADFs; they are Mac files in A-Max format.

Please follow this procedure:
- prepare a fresh WinUAE install (I suggest A600 2MB chip 1 MB fast, with Hard Disk)
- put/install your Converter v7.0 (or above) on the disk of the emulated A600
- start the emulated A600 and load the Converter
- set one of the A-MAX Extended ADFs as df0
- with the Converter, create an image of the A-Max disk(adf) which is in df0: (select "A-Max" as destination, of course, and set the HD as destination location). Let's call it IMAGE.

This should and will work.

Than you can make the inverse procedure: writing on a blank adf (always Extended, not normal) from the IMAGE source. That will work, too (as you also stated before).
You will be able to repeat the read/write/read/... cycle and it will work.

JimDrew · 02 June 2014, 02:53

The converter will make images files from AmigaDOS, Amax, EMPLANT, and PC formatted disks. So, the converter should work with the .adf that you put in The Zone.

You can take the System 6.0.5 image included in one of the archives and make an Amax formatted disk. Now, if you try to make an image from that disk with the converter, it says that the disk is unrecognized. The disk is created correctly though. Reads just don't work. I will need to run the debugger under WinUAE to see what the failure code is. The disk is handled through multi-os.device, but I looked at the source code today and see that any access to an Amiga formatted disk is pass through to trackdisk.device. Only. Amax, EMPLANT, and PC tracks are handled by my driver.

Supamax · 02 June 2014, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

The converter will make images files from AmigaDOS, Amax, EMPLANT, and PC formatted disks. So, the converter should work with the .adf that you put in The Zone.

Did you test the Converter with one of the .adf files I put in the Zone?
Make an image of those disks.

Quote:

You can take the System 6.0.5 image included in one of the archives and make an Amax formatted disk. Now, if you try to make an image from that disk with the converter, it says that the disk is unrecognized. The disk is created correctly though. Reads just don't work. I will need to run the debugger under WinUAE to see what the failure code is. The disk is handled through multi-os.device, but I looked at the source code today and see that any access to an Amiga formatted disk is pass through to trackdisk.device. Only. Amax, EMPLANT, and PC tracks are handled by my driver.

Ok, but prior to that PLEASE try making images of the extended adfs I uploaded.

JimDrew · 02 June 2014, 18:03

I did, I did, I did... it doesn't work. Not with a fresh install, not with any selection of the floppy drives.

You can create disks just fine. You just can't read disks - not even those that created just fine.

Let me explain this is detail...

The Converter II program will create a floppy in DF0: (or any drive) from a "Converter" image file. You have a few of those files in The Zone. Using a real Amiga, I can make a Amax or EMPLANT formatted disk from the System 6.0.5 disk image (which is in my Converter II format). I can also do the same thing with WinVICE. The Converter II image file is made into a disk (virtual of course, because it's an emulation). I can look at that disk with a MFM editor and see the correct MFM data. Now, if I try to make a Converter II image file from that disk that reads fine with a MFM editor, the Converter II program states that the disk type is unknown when it tries to determine the exact disk format. This is because the data is not reading correctly. Of course with a real Amiga, this works fine.

So, once again - writing/verifying works perfectly and reading does not work at all.

Supamax · 02 June 2014, 23:49

How can it be...

I created all those adfs (in WinUAE) and verified them (in WinUAE) with the procedure not working for you: reading them again with the converter!
When I'm saying "verified" I mean:
- made a new image of them with the Converter (it worked. It worked. It woooooooorked! Why in hell did it work for me and it doesn't work for you...

)
- compared the new images to the source ones (the ones with your header, used in the first instance to obtain those adfs) and they were identical.

Ok, too much variables here (perhaps WinUAE release, or config, or something other). I'll definitely have to test the procedure again, as soon as I have time.
In the meantime, thanks for your explanations and tests, Jim.

JimDrew · 03 June 2014, 05:17

Technically, I don't believe it should work. I know that most of my programs did not work under WinUAE because of how I bang on the DMA registers while the data is being spooled. I start/stop/start the DMA and change the length on the fly. I looked into this a few years ago, and that's what I found. I just assumed that its the same issue today, but who knows. You are right, there are a lot of variables here. Maybe something broke between different revisions? Stuff happens.

You should try making an Amax disk from the System 6.0.5 converter image file and then try converting it to an image again. This is where I see the problem. Let me know what you find. I am curious.

Supamax · 03 June 2014, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimDrew

I know that most of my programs did not work under WinUAE

Can you write a list of all the software you wrote for Amiga? I've always been interested in emulation and all related utilities

.

Quote:

You should try making an Amax disk from the System 6.0.5 converter image file and then try converting it to an image again. This is where I see the problem. Let me know what you find. I am curious.

Could you please upload to the Zone that exact image file? Or which is the archive containing it...

EDIT
Jim, the fact you concentrated and are still concentrating your attention on the System 6.0.5 image file makes me think you never tested neither what I uploaded (17 Extended ADFs etc.) nor the procedures/config I suggested. Am I right?

JimDrew · 03 June 2014, 16:46

For the Amiga, I developed Supercard Ami, Supercard Ami II, Parameter Construction Set, SYBIL, Kickstart Selector, Boot Drive Selector, DigiDither, Tracker (digital track display), AMIA, EMPLANT, e586, Mac Lite, FUSION, PCx, and dozens of utility programs for read/writing/converting Mac and PC disks. I am sure there are few other hardware products I missed.

Yes, I downloaded everything from The Zone pertaining to my software and this situation. You are not listening to what I am saying. If you take the System 6.0.5 disk image (which is an image made from an original Apple System 6.0.5 system disk, in my Converter II format) and write that back to a disk - it works fine. Now, if you try to convert that disk that you just wrote back, the Converter II program will NOT recognize the disk (Unknown Disk Error) - even though you just wrote it perfectly. Examining the disk that was written shows that the disk is in fact correct. No matter what type of disk is tried (EMPLANT, Amax, AmigaDOS, or PC), the Converter II program is not able to read any of those disks - extended ADF or not. I am absolutely, positively, unable to get the Converter II program to read any type of disk under WinUAE. Of course it works fine with real hardware. I concentrated on the System 6.0.5 disk because it was the first image that I tried writing back to disk. That disk can be used by Amax, EMPLANT, etc. That disk can not be read with the Converter II program.

Image file --> DF0 - works!
DF0 --> Image file - does not work!

voxel · 04 June 2014, 09:26

I still have some real mac drives I used with my mac emulators on my amigas, the AMax II cartridge (with mac roms), emplant deluxe board, Amax 4, Fusion and MacOS systems 7.0.1 to 8.6 all originals if that can help ^^).

Gilloo · 14 February 2016, 23:14

Hi all, sorry to bump this old topic, but I got time now to save my old disks...
The converter II makes a guru 8000000B on a true A2000 68000...
Is there some fpu code inside converter II ?
The gui is well displayed, but it crashes just at the beginning of the conversion

Supamax · 19 February 2016, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilloo

Hi all, sorry to bump this old topic, but I got time now to save my old disks...

No problem, you are VERY welcome

Quote:

The converter II makes a guru 8000000B on a true A2000 68000...
Is there some fpu code inside converter II ?
The gui is well displayed, but it crashes just at the beginning of the conversion

Right now I don't remember (the thread is veeery long and some years have passed), but as far as I know it should work on a regular 68000 Amiga... (unless I'm wrong and it requires a 68020 cpu).
Did you read the thread?

We made a lot of discoveries.

JimDrew · 28 February 2016, 00:36

There is no FPU code in the Converter II program. It does requires OS2.04 or later, but it checks for that and exits peacefully with a CLI message (if running from the CLI).

Perhaps you have older libraries that the Converter II uses? I am not sure what would cause an actual crash.

Besides the standard Amiga libraries/devices, the Converter II requires the following:

jam.library
sybil.library
emplant.library
amia.device
multi-os.device

Gilloo · 28 February 2016, 11:59

I use a disk called Emplant Disk Converter II v7.0 (WB2.1).adf under AmigaOS 3.1 NTSC.
The 3 libraries jam.library sybil.library emplant.library are present, but not amia.device and not multi-os.device.

29 May 2014, 03:53	#1261
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Monza, Italy Posts: 2,822	Hi Toni, I don't know if you're referring to me (you probably are). You're right, but... yesterday I made a very long read of this thread (it took many hours) and in post #1258 I made a summary of some interesting points (most are empirical, but that's the way we had to make some progresses). At the end of it, however, I reported what I discovered years ago: Converter v7.0 worked absolutely flawless (reading and writing on adf/disk) for me in WinUAE, and the utility (Converter v7.2) I uploaded to the Zone can be tested by Jim (if he wants) or by anyone wanting to test it. Last edited by Supamax; 29 May 2014 at 04:27.

02 June 2014, 02:53	#1269
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	The converter will make images files from AmigaDOS, Amax, EMPLANT, and PC formatted disks. So, the converter should work with the .adf that you put in The Zone. You can take the System 6.0.5 image included in one of the archives and make an Amax formatted disk. Now, if you try to make an image from that disk with the converter, it says that the disk is unrecognized. The disk is created correctly though. Reads just don't work. I will need to run the debugger under WinUAE to see what the failure code is. The disk is handled through multi-os.device, but I looked at the source code today and see that any access to an Amiga formatted disk is pass through to trackdisk.device. Only. Amax, EMPLANT, and PC tracks are handled by my driver. Last edited by JimDrew; 02 June 2014 at 07:35.

02 June 2014, 18:03	#1271
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	I did, I did, I did... it doesn't work. Not with a fresh install, not with any selection of the floppy drives. You can create disks just fine. You just can't read disks - not even those that created just fine. Let me explain this is detail... The Converter II program will create a floppy in DF0: (or any drive) from a "Converter" image file. You have a few of those files in The Zone. Using a real Amiga, I can make a Amax or EMPLANT formatted disk from the System 6.0.5 disk image (which is in my Converter II format). I can also do the same thing with WinVICE. The Converter II image file is made into a disk (virtual of course, because it's an emulation). I can look at that disk with a MFM editor and see the correct MFM data. Now, if I try to make a Converter II image file from that disk that reads fine with a MFM editor, the Converter II program states that the disk type is unknown when it tries to determine the exact disk format. This is because the data is not reading correctly. Of course with a real Amiga, this works fine. So, once again - writing/verifying works perfectly and reading does not work at all. Last edited by JimDrew; 02 June 2014 at 18:11.

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29 May 2014, 05:14	#1264
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	I could have something "off" with my WinUAE. I will try a fresh install and config.

02 June 2014, 23:49	#1272
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Monza, Italy Posts: 2,822	How can it be... I created all those adfs (in WinUAE) and verified them (in WinUAE) with the procedure not working for you: reading them again with the converter! When I'm saying "verified" I mean: - made a new image of them with the Converter (it worked. It worked. It woooooooorked! Why in hell did it work for me and it doesn't work for you... ) - compared the new images to the source ones (the ones with your header, used in the first instance to obtain those adfs) and they were identical. Ok, too much variables here (perhaps WinUAE release, or config, or something other). I'll definitely have to test the procedure again, as soon as I have time. In the meantime, thanks for your explanations and tests, Jim.

03 June 2014, 05:17	#1273
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	Technically, I don't believe it should work. I know that most of my programs did not work under WinUAE because of how I bang on the DMA registers while the data is being spooled. I start/stop/start the DMA and change the length on the fly. I looked into this a few years ago, and that's what I found. I just assumed that its the same issue today, but who knows. You are right, there are a lot of variables here. Maybe something broke between different revisions? Stuff happens. You should try making an Amax disk from the System 6.0.5 converter image file and then try converting it to an image again. This is where I see the problem. Let me know what you find. I am curious.

03 June 2014, 16:46	#1275
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	For the Amiga, I developed Supercard Ami, Supercard Ami II, Parameter Construction Set, SYBIL, Kickstart Selector, Boot Drive Selector, DigiDither, Tracker (digital track display), AMIA, EMPLANT, e586, Mac Lite, FUSION, PCx, and dozens of utility programs for read/writing/converting Mac and PC disks. I am sure there are few other hardware products I missed. Yes, I downloaded everything from The Zone pertaining to my software and this situation. You are not listening to what I am saying. If you take the System 6.0.5 disk image (which is an image made from an original Apple System 6.0.5 system disk, in my Converter II format) and write that back to a disk - it works fine. Now, if you try to convert that disk that you just wrote back, the Converter II program will NOT recognize the disk (Unknown Disk Error) - even though you just wrote it perfectly. Examining the disk that was written shows that the disk is in fact correct. No matter what type of disk is tried (EMPLANT, Amax, AmigaDOS, or PC), the Converter II program is not able to read any of those disks - extended ADF or not. I am absolutely, positively, unable to get the Converter II program to read any type of disk under WinUAE. Of course it works fine with real hardware. I concentrated on the System 6.0.5 disk because it was the first image that I tried writing back to disk. That disk can be used by Amax, EMPLANT, etc. That disk can not be read with the Converter II program. Image file --> DF0 - works! DF0 --> Image file - does not work!

04 June 2014, 09:26	#1276
voxel Amiga Nuts! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Le Mayet d'Ecole, 03800, FRANCE Posts: 176	I still have some real mac drives I used with my mac emulators on my amigas, the AMax II cartridge (with mac roms), emplant deluxe board, Amax 4, Fusion and MacOS systems 7.0.1 to 8.6 all originals if that can help ^^).

14 February 2016, 23:14	#1277
Gilloo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Grenoble, Isère, Rhône-Alpes, France, Europe, Earth Posts: 289	Hi all, sorry to bump this old topic, but I got time now to save my old disks... The converter II makes a guru 8000000B on a true A2000 68000... Is there some fpu code inside converter II ? The gui is well displayed, but it crashes just at the beginning of the conversion

28 February 2016, 00:36	#1279
JimDrew Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ Posts: 741	There is no FPU code in the Converter II program. It does requires OS2.04 or later, but it checks for that and exits peacefully with a CLI message (if running from the CLI). Perhaps you have older libraries that the Converter II uses? I am not sure what would cause an actual crash. Besides the standard Amiga libraries/devices, the Converter II requires the following: jam.library sybil.library emplant.library amia.device multi-os.device

28 February 2016, 11:59	#1280
Gilloo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Grenoble, Isère, Rhône-Alpes, France, Europe, Earth Posts: 289	I use a disk called Emplant Disk Converter II v7.0 (WB2.1).adf under AmigaOS 3.1 NTSC. The 3 libraries jam.library sybil.library emplant.library are present, but not amia.device and not multi-os.device.

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