Details for the next generation of Flickerfixers from Individual Computers

[amigarobbo]

This all seems to working pretty well, I can see games on my new monitor, and I can get a nice unflicking decent sized workbench screen, the only thing that's no good is IBrowse at a decent screen resolution, it's like crawling through treacle.

THis is of course, due to problems restrictions of AGA, as great as this product is, it's no subsitute for a graphics card

But then it was never sold as one, so all good, init?

[BarryB]

How do we get rid of interlace effects in the MKII? You can see them when you drag something or move the mouse when running interlaced screens.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by BarryB

How do we get rid of interlace effects in the MKII? You can see them when you drag something or move the mouse when running interlaced screens.

You can't. It is not possible get rid of all interlacing artifacts when going from interlaced->progressive.

[PopoCop]

Originally Posted by demolition

You can't. It is not possible get rid of all interlacing artifacts when going from interlaced->progressive.

That's sad.

[Cymru]

In VGA or DVI output?

[BarryB]

Dvi

[demolition]

The picture is identical in VGA and DVI, although VGA might be slightly unsharper and have noise in it. The interlace artifacts are the same.

[PopoCop]

Is it really impossible to eliminate those interlace effects? Static (not moving) screens look good but anything that moves shows interlace and it looks awful. Playing pinball games in multiball mode (PAL 640*512) is a nightmare and looks worse than on PAL monitor or VGA with external scandoubler (without flicker fixer).

[TreacleWench]

Originally Posted by PopoCop

Is it really impossible to eliminate those interlace effects? Static (not moving) screens look good but anything that moves shows interlace and it looks awful. Playing pinball games in multiball mode (PAL 640*512) is a nightmare and looks worse than on PAL monitor or VGA with external scandoubler (without flicker fixer).

Am I missing something here? When on the desktop I do notice artifacts on the mouse cursor when it's moving but I have never noticed any artifacts in any games. And I play Pinball Dreams alot!

I would say the picture is 10 times better than it ever looked back in the day when I used it on a PAL TV.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by TreacleWench

Am I missing something here? When on the desktop I do notice artifacts on the mouse cursor when it's moving but I have never noticed any artifacts in any games. And I play Pinball Dreams alot!

Most games are not running in interlaced mode, thus there will be no problems.

@Popocop: A PAL monitor can show interlaced properly, thus there will be no artifacts. An LCD could do it as well to a large extent, but then it would be flickering.

Wikipedia writes this about deinterlacing:

Deinterlacing has been researched for decades and employs complex processing algorithms; however, consistent results have been very hard to achieve.

Deinterlacing is a compromise, and there is no definite 'correct' way of doing it. It can be compared to Intelligent Frame Creation methods, which are found in most modern TVs to make video move smoother. It may work for certain clips, but there are always problems with it and it can't work generally.

[Schoenfeld]

When interlacing, every half-frame is the "current" frame, so if you start counting at a certain time index, then every half-frame is "half a frame" further in time. The reason why you see it "perfect" on an interlaced output is that you always see the current frame. It's a result of the flickering: You miss the steady picture and only get the current information.

Indivision AGA MK2 does what *all* flickerfixers have done in the past: It composes a progressive-scan picture from the last two half-frames.

Naturally, these two interleaved half-frames belong to a different time-index, so the resulting picture is a mix of the "current" time-index, and "half a frame ago". There is no "clean" way around that, as demolition already mentioned. In essence, you trade the flickering for the interlace artefacts. Since these artefacts only appear on horizontal movements and ONLY on interlaced pictures (which are hardly ever used in games), I'd say that's a good compromise.

Jens

[TreacleWench]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Since these artefacts only appear on horizontal movements and ONLY on interlaced pictures (which are hardly ever used in games), I'd say that's a good compromise.

I couldn't agree more!

[PopoCop]

Originally Posted by TreacleWench

And I play Pinball Dreams alot!

It's a lores game and it has no multiball mode. Play Pinball Illusions or Slam Tilt.

[bbond007]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

I'd say that's a good compromise.

Totally Agree. I can run Shapeshifter in interlace PAL 8BPP mode and get decent video speed. About 1:1 with a Quadra

Running in multiscan mode will cut that figure in half making the video feel sluggish.

Also keep in mind that Commomore's Amber in the A3000 had the same type of interlace motion tearing on the VGA in interlace mode.

I was playing with the interlace video in Virtualdub(Windows PC) to try and eliminate motion tearing as much as possible when I was running the A1200 with AmigaManiacs SVIDEO into a USB capture device. Even with all of the options that software had I don't think one would totally eliminate it without causing other annoyances like blurry text.

[BarryB]

@Shoenfeld: Well that's shut me up then