21 October 2019, 22:23 | #1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: france
Age: 45
Posts: 220
|
Toki
Hi guys,
I just wonder why this excellent arcade conversion got such tiny screen? Was it possible to increase the screen size without loosing other features the programmer manage to get like parallax scrolling? |
21 October 2019, 22:31 | #2 |
Lemon. / Core Design
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tier 5
Posts: 1,212
|
I believe the coin-op was running at 256x240 resolution... I think the Amiga version is the same screen dimensions (although this resolution looks "smaller" on the Amiga)
Many coin-ops of that time used this (or similar) resolution |
21 October 2019, 22:35 | #3 | |
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 41
Posts: 3,450
|
Quote:
I heard people saying this is a bad feature of the Amiga port. It's just they were aiming for best accuracy as possible |
|
21 October 2019, 22:43 | #4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: france
Age: 45
Posts: 220
|
Thanks for the answer guys..
|
21 October 2019, 22:44 | #5 |
noodle
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 247
|
seems to be 224x200
|
21 October 2019, 22:45 | #6 |
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wakefield
Age: 48
Posts: 1,334
|
Toki is an excellent arcade conversion.
|
21 October 2019, 23:06 | #7 |
Lemon. / Core Design
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tier 5
Posts: 1,212
|
|
21 October 2019, 23:09 | #8 |
Lemon. / Core Design
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tier 5
Posts: 1,212
|
If I was porting a game that originally was at 256x224 or 256x240, then I'd definitely try to keep the same size as the original. Makes for a much more accurate and authentic conversion (even if there is some extra border space)
|
21 October 2019, 23:11 | #9 |
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 41
Posts: 3,450
|
It is indeed. The lack of 2 button make it harder than the arcade version though, and I believe it's lacking one or two enemies here and there... I could get very far on the Arcade version, and I remember playing the Amiga one and not getting attacked at certain spots I would be on the Arcade one... but most of the time it was damn accurate.
The scrolling was kinda messy too. I read somewhere the Amiga version "Fixes the bug the arcade version has with the scrolling". I have no idea of what they were talking about, but on the Amiga version you sometimes have to stop moving a little so the scroll can catch up with the action. But all in all, an amazingly good conversion indeed. |
22 October 2019, 00:06 | #10 | |
noodle
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 247
|
Quote:
see Toki Amiga vs Arcade : https://amigachaptertwo.wordpress.co...iga-vs-arcade/ (sorry in french) note: same site for the Z-Out Windows port : Last Out |
|
22 October 2019, 00:23 | #11 |
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 41
Posts: 3,450
|
Just checked a video for the Atari ST version. Also incredibly good and the horizontal scroll keeps up with the action, unlike the Amiga version.
|
22 October 2019, 00:41 | #12 | |
noodle
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 247
|
from amigachaptertwo :
Quote:
|
|
22 October 2019, 01:05 | #13 |
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 41
Posts: 3,450
|
That was a pretty stupid idea IMO.
|
22 October 2019, 01:19 | #14 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London / Sydney
Age: 47
Posts: 20,420
|
Quote:
Same for Liquid Kids |
|
22 October 2019, 10:45 | #15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,410
|
|
22 October 2019, 11:16 | #16 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Age: 43
Posts: 742
|
Quote:
And although some might like the speed of the Atari version, I don't. It's simply a complete differente pace as the original. |
|
22 October 2019, 11:18 | #17 |
Lemon. / Core Design
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tier 5
Posts: 1,212
|
If you know how "fast" scroll routines are done on the Atari ST, you'll understand why the scroll mechanic is different from the Amiga
|
22 October 2019, 11:25 | #18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Age: 43
Posts: 742
|
I'm not sure if I got your point, or if I expressed mine correctly .
Atari version is much too fast for my taste, as it's faster than the Arcade version. Amiga matches mostly the speed of the Arcade version. After reading the article I understand what was meant with "scrolling hooked to the player". Scrolling is hooked in Atari version. In the Amiga version the scrolling is a little more "delayed". Still I think Amiga version matches the pace and character of the Arcade version better. |
22 October 2019, 12:31 | #19 | |
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil
Age: 41
Posts: 3,450
|
Quote:
It looks like the programmer wanted to do a 1 pixel scroller on Amiga just to show how smooth it can be, but it actually hurts gameplay, because then the scroll can't keep up with the action. Or the scroll is wating for the blitter to finishing blitting the new tiles, I dunno. If this was indeed done deliberately it was a very silly decision. It's really annoying to keep "pausing" so the scroll can keep up with you, and at a few points where you fall from a big height, you can die from an enemy before you can even see it because the "camera" wasn't following your movement fast enough. This scrolling nonsense and the "up for jump" are the only problems with this port. The "up for jump" was impossible to avoid (At least back when the game was made), but if the scrolling was done this on purpose, it was a bad decision and something that *maybe* deserves to be patched, if its possible to do it. EDIT Compare arcade version at 1:55 [ Show youtube player ] And Amiga version at 1:30: [ Show youtube player ] EDIT 2: Damn it, running both videos side by side... IT IS an amazing Port..... Last edited by Shatterhand; 22 October 2019 at 12:38. |
|
22 October 2019, 12:46 | #20 |
Lemon. / Core Design
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tier 5
Posts: 1,212
|
Generally, ST scroll routines in games were (in my experience at Core at least) created by having preshifted block "pairs".. then the tile data can be moved to the screen with simple moves... having the blocks preshifted means you need to store the tile-pairs for each pixel of scroll resolution...
I'd imagine on TOKI they probably have a scroll resolution of 4 pixels on the ST... so they would need to store 4 sets of these preshifted pairs. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Re: Toki Demo?? | Aezeroony | support.Games | 11 | 12 October 2016 14:29 |
TOKI for XBLA and PSN (maybe PC?) | dlfrsilver | News | 21 | 16 January 2013 14:53 |
toki | mtb | support.Games | 12 | 03 November 2003 10:49 |
toki whdload version | someamigauser | request.Old Rare Games | 4 | 20 January 2003 15:16 |
toki | mast | Nostalgia & memories | 7 | 14 March 2002 01:26 |
|
|