Will we ever get a Sundog ST->Amiga conversion?

[AmigaHope]

Our old guard has continuously been putting out some amazing ST->Amiga ports over the past few years, it's really impressive.

The one that stands out to me that we've been missing is Sundog: Frozen Legacy. FTL's game from before they did Dungeon Master.

I keep hoping that I'll see it someday. =)

OK this thread is shameless begging from my sorry ass to coders who are way better than I am, but I figured I'd make an attempt anyway.

[meynaf]

I've had a quick look many years ago.
Sundog uses a strange programming system with code scattered everywhere, iow it's far from being easy.
I also suspect it might be using gem calls, turning the conversion into a nightmare.

[kamelito]

might be easier to port this re-implementation, not sure if it's complete.

https://github.com/laanwj/sundog

[jotd]

porting a SDL2 game to Amiga... Well I can assure you that it's not trivial. SDL2 hasn't even been ported to amiga. That's why I stayed on SDL1.2 for all the windows things I've done.

I also suspect it might be using gem calls, turning the conversion into a nightmare.

In 1998/1999 Harry started OSEmu, an amiga OS emulation in asm that was a prequel to KickEmu on whdload. He could make Another World run (which used dos/exec calls)

One can imagine rewrite only the relevant gem calls as long as there aren't graphical/windows stuff. For instance, file read/write allocate memory/other low level stuff would be feasible. But it would require a return on investment on several games.

[kamelito]

Another recreation : https://github.com/laanwj/sundog

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by jotd

One can imagine rewrite only the relevant gem calls as long as there aren't graphical/windows stuff. For instance, file read/write allocate memory/other low level stuff would be feasible. But it would require a return on investment on several games.

File access and memory allocate are easy to replace in the code. That's no problem.
I even have XBios DoSound routine somewhere.
As you mention, gem calls can also sometimes be replaced - Oids used a few.
But Sundog appears to be using windows and menus, that is, graphical/windows stuff...

[Retro1234]

You can play it on 68000 Amiga with Atari ST emulator
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=614102#post614102

[Predseda]

Is that game any fun?

[AmigaHope]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Is that game any fun?

If you liked the relatively-recent indie game FTL, then you'd like Sundog. Sundog is basically the spiritual ancestor of FTL.

And funnily enough, the company that made Sundog was called FTL! Coincidence or conspiracy?

[AmigaHope]

Originally Posted by meynaf

File access and memory allocate are easy to replace in the code. That's no problem.
I even have XBios DoSound routine somewhere.
As you mention, gem calls can also sometimes be replaced - Oids used a few.
But Sundog appears to be using windows and menus, that is, graphical/windows stuff...

I suppose you could swipe some code from FreeGEM/OpenGEM?

[Angus]

Originally Posted by AmigaHope

I suppose you could swipe some code from FreeGEM/OpenGEM?

I had a look on Sundog's wiki page and from what I understand (God help us all! ) It doesn't use Gem but rather a system the co-author, Bruce Webster developed on the original Apple II version called ZoomAction. See below:


SunDog was designed by Bruce Webster and Wayne Holder,[2] who were friends from school. Webster wrote 80 to 90% of the code,[3] serving as co-designer, chief architect, and principal developer of the game. Initially the two were making a video game version of a microgame called Star Smuggler by Dwarfstar Games, but a bankruptcy of the developer's parent company Heritage Models prevented them from getting clear rights to it. SunDog was developed as a result.[1]
Before beginning SunDog, Webster had been working on a BBS door game called Blows Against the Empire. His idea was to lead the SunDog into some situations similar to those found in that game, and its setting was used for SunDog.[1] Webster's Mormon faith inspired the game's story of colonists attempting to survive on the frontier.[3]
Inspired by the Xerox Alto user interface (developed by Xerox PARC), Webster designed a layered windowing system called ZoomAction. It was hailed for its ease of use and intuitive functionality. Players only needed an Apple two-button joystick or Atari ST's two-button mouse to play the game. Windows appeared one on top of the other as the player accessed different parts of the game. Drag-and-drop icons were used for repairing the ship, buying components, eating food, and so on. The user would interact with non-player characters (NPCs) via buttons listing possible responses to what the NPC had just said.
ZoomAction was used for everything from controlling the ship to walking around the cities and planets in the game. As the user walked into buildings, a window would appear showing the interior, and the character could walk about and carry on (limited) conversations with other people in the building. The idea of exiting the ship to explore the game world remains fairly uncommon in the genre to this day. A world in which neutral characters populate interactive cities appears to be unique. Compared to games like Elite, the SunDog world was considerably more immersive, albeit much smaller in terms of the number of stars and planets.[citation needed]
Shortly after completing version 1.0 of SunDog, Webster and Holder demoed their game at the West Coast Computer Faire. From people playing the game, they logged about 30 bugs. Webster resolved them all within three weeks. The fixed version was released as version 1.1, and FTL provided free upgrades for all registered owners of 1.0.
Originally, SunDog was designed to run on 48K, but its memory requirement was changed to 64K late in development. Webster couldn't take full advantage of the extra memory at the time, but with 1.1 out the door, he was able to refactor the game. As a result, the new version swapped less to disk and just ran smoother. He also added some other new features. One more bug was discovered in version 1.1 (this bug actually let the player cheat, so few users complained about it). Webster fixed that bug as well. The result of this work was version 2.0 and was released in October 1984. At this point, Webster was burned out with software development and left FTL. He was made attractive offers from other game development companies, but turned them all down.[1]
The game is written in Apple Pascal.[4] When it was ported to the Atari ST, large sections of the Apple II version were used with little or no changes.

[b0lt-thrower]

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but wouldn't it be simpler to just reimplement Sundog (e.g., copy its features, goals, missions, etc.) but use a different code-base to achieve the same results? The only reason I ask is that as is mentioned it seems tied to a lot of (relatively) strange things in the ST...

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Angus

It doesn't use Gem but rather a system the co-author, Bruce Webster developed on the original Apple II version called ZoomAction.

I don't think you can say that. The Atari ST port could have used GEM gfx routines in it's ZoomAction renderer (if they even kept any of it at all).

Originally Posted by Angus

When it was ported to the Atari ST, large sections of the Apple II version were used with little or no changes.

This refers I believe to the game-code written in PASCAL. Even the SDL version runs the AtariST PASCAL code.

[Angus]

You know more about these things than me, Alex - but my point is that Meynaf's concern that the game may depend on Gem calls (making it a nightmare to convert) seems to remain, at the very least, unconfirmed.

[dreadnought]

I remeber Galahad/FTL mentioning he was considering it, or already working on it, but that was some time ago.

It's one of the best games from the Eighties.

[Angus]

If it helps I've just got hold of an ST original Sundog and would be happy to image or whatever, assuming one can do that on an Amiga.

That made me wonder, would it be very difficult to have a WHDLoad slave that would run generic ST stuff? Obviously a rom would be required.

[Lisko]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

You can play it on 68000 Amiga with Atari ST emulator
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=614102#post614102

Could it run on a 68020/68030 as well?

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Lisko

Could it run on a 68020/68030 as well?

Probably not, the best ST emulators were 68000 only iirc

[Angus]

WHDLoad patch (with RTG, 060 Superscalar and Tea making facilities)!!! ;-)

[DrBong]

.....and free sex 'n' beer on ya birthday too, eh Angus!!!