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Old 11 February 2021, 19:41   #1
White
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Composite3D DEMO works with PatchCompositeTag

I managed to get the Composite3D Demo program to work with the Voodoo3. I was wondering if its support could be improved through winuae or with PatchCompositeTag and possibly if this improvement could give hardware acceleration to the Odyssey Browser with relative acceleration in viewing movies, for example with YouTube.


Currently it is not perfect it has the usual flickering and it is a bit slow


Thank you.


[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 11 February 2021, 21:02   #2
Zarnal
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Hello,

Beamracing don't solve your flickering issue in this case ( in RTG Fullscreen only ) ? You are in windowed mode.
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Old 11 February 2021, 21:43   #3
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@Zarnal
I tried but it doesn't fix it,
Sometimes for convenience I use the window because it is more convenient for screen recording.
I tried this function because somehow if it would work it would accelerate with Browser Odyssey even though I think it is only supported by radeon cards.
But here if I open the videos with Odyssey I can get the video opening with the composite active directly in the Odyssey Browser but the screen remains black even if the sound is heard.

So if I activate the composite in the preferences GUI, the video is seen but then everything crashes.

I have to do other tests but I don't know if voodoo3 supports composite natively or if in winuae it still has to be implemented as a function if in winuae it was enabled (if possible) there would be hardware acceleration in the videos.

here you can test if you use Odyssey:
https://tools.woolyss.com/html5-audio-video-tester/

separate note:
But if I enable the video you see I don't know why it crashes almost immediately perhaps because it is a function not implemented or it is not supported by Voodoo3
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Old 11 February 2021, 22:11   #4
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@Zarnal
@All
Here you can see my test with Odyssey how hardware acceleration works in videos if it worked correctly a little hard to explain but easy to see
this would be a huge step forward for 4.1FE emulation:

[ Show youtube player ]

separate note:
hardware acceleration is activated when the screen remains black

Last edited by White; 11 February 2021 at 22:16.
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Old 12 February 2021, 13:28   #5
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I leave the link for some interesting news in case it could be useful for Composite support.
And for those who want to carry out some tests:
http://hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/c3d/
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Old 15 February 2021, 11:55   #6
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Here the new composite test seems to work well.
could winuae code be improved to improve support for this feature?

I did some tests with Odyssey and it seems to have hardware acceleration even if the speed is not perfect it seems to work.
But how do I know if hardware acceleration is used for videos?
Thank you.

separate note:
the system in use is not patched with any external library only PatchCompositeTag is used, otherwise the screen remains black.

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 15 February 2021, 12:25   #7
Zarnal
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I think speed is not an issue right now (future processors will definitely fix this). What seems more annoying to me is regular flickering with OS4. We should be interested in how voodoo is managed by OS4 (and its own drivers). Find detailed documentation for example on this point.
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Old 15 February 2021, 12:48   #8
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I looked for examples for voodoo3 + os4.1 but i didn't find anything.
Not even any testimony of old users who used it.
It's not easy to find someone :-)

here Odyssey that works with hardware acceleration ???
it seems so.
the speed of execution is not important because the video capture program falsifies the performance.
But the test
It is not perfect but it opens the videos in full screen window and the speed is similar to that of the composite test.
I cannot add anything else I am unable to establish it.

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 15 February 2021, 15:05   #9
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I did other tests there seems to be acceleration because each selected video is played at the same speed with the same video resolution and with any video compression.
with uaegfx this does not happen some videos are not played at the same resolution and speed.
it would be interesting to know if there can be room for improvement on the winuae side since it works.
I also understand that few use Odyssey with 4.1FE and perhaps this test will remain an end in itself.
But it works.
I would have to register with the phone to see the real speed :-)

I wonder if this aspect can be further improved in winuae .
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Old 15 February 2021, 16:17   #10
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Here the Odyssey Browser taken with the mobile phone on youtube
I don't know the real behavior of a real machine and many things change with the emulation many times.
There is no full screen support because everything slows down and maybe this should be improved somehow.
but the videos work very well and there is a difference with the uaegfx driver any video you watch all work at the same speed
But the point is, it works and that's important.

[ Show youtube player ]

I'm sorry as always but it works maybe it could be improved .
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Old 16 February 2021, 13:07   #11
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@Toni

Here I report a small example of how winuae works well with the "composite" and of programs that use it without applying any patch.
It is important to note that there is no need to activate the "composite" function in the workbench preferences.
Any program that activates the "composite" winuae makes it available and makes it use.

The flaw of the "composite" if I can call it this way with winuae.
And that probably isn't "optimized" I use this term because I don't know any others.
In practice, up to about 3/4 of the screen the speed is excellent for example with Odyssey but instead expanding the window to full screen here is that the performance collapses.

It is possible to investigate and somehow solve this problem if this problem were overcome Odyssey would also work in full screen smoothly.
It's just one example and I tried to explain it as best I could.

Thanks again.

Sometimes it is not easy to explain the questions in a forum

[ Show youtube player ]

separate note:
here a program is used that in real time using the composite uses a thumbnail to reproduce everything that happens on the screen.
kind of like windows vista function.

and maybe it could also be related to random video blocking issues in 4.1FE screens but I could say wrong things.

I don't know the characteristics of the 68k with the voodoo3 but I guess it doesn't have the composite activated in the system.
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Old 16 February 2021, 22:58   #12
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@Toni
I bring you a suggestion that was given to me as an example I hope it will be useful to explain myself better and to make you understand my request as long as it is possible to apply it and that it falls within this context.
But only you can answer this:

"
The CPU usage required to process a picture is equal to number of pixels * the time routines takes to execute for whatever operation you doing on pixel.

So for example, if picture that’s
4*4 = 16
8*8 = 64

So 64/16 is 4 so it takes 4 times cpu usage of whatever factor to draw 8*8 picture vs 4*4 pixel picture.

So if in efficient routine trying do transparency on a 4*4 picture you wont notice it, but 8*8 is 4 times as slow, so might be really noticeable.

So what rally wont to do is exit emulator, do it natively and return to the emulator, so it should be possible to do that in few way in UAE, it has address map, that allow you assign special rutines for reading and write different address spaces, that’s one way, maybe you use instruction exception. "

Thanks for a possible answer.
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Old 17 February 2021, 20:21   #13
Toni Wilen
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Do I really have to answer? Because answer is same as always: I won't touch Amiga side 3D software.

And what you suggested really isn't that simple anyway.
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Old 17 February 2021, 21:05   #14
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@Toni
Thanks for the reply,
it could have been an idea at least for the "browser odyssey"
currently on the software side there is everything you need to use 4.1 to listen to music, draw follow streaming and more.
If this obstacle could only be overcome for the Odyssey Browser, I probably think that many users would gladly try 4.1FE being able to listen to music and watch videos on youtube and beyond.
It would be a great incentive to try using it and it would open a new chapter for winuae.
Being able to use the system in a more modern way

But I understand everything you say and I thank you anyway.
When we talk about winuae we talk about amigaos and therefore they are just ideas of a simple fan of the system on my part.

As always you have the utmost respect from me for making the amiga available again after many years.
And my requests are directed to a developer like you who could make a difference for your emulator.
If it could only be done for the Browser this would be a great leap to try 4.1FE for those who have used amigaos in the past.

As always I am very happy with the emulation as it is today.
But the forum gives you the opportunity to try asking
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Old 17 February 2021, 21:33   #15
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@White

For the flickering problem ( black " flashes " ), I noticed on a French site that this could also happen on real hardware and Voodoo 3. "Earth 2140" for example (a specific Voodoo 3 patch exists for this game ). Without further details.
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Old 18 February 2021, 09:29   #16
thellier
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@white
I am the PatchCompositeTags and Wazp3D author
I allways explained here some time ago that if PatchCompositeTags dont works with Oddyssey is because it use an YUV bitmap as source: a format I didnt implemented...
Last year I converted PatchCompositeTags to a .library (so it may add composition to 68k machines like VampireSA) and also added some code for YUV support...
Sadly the ppc version .library crash and I never found the motivation to debug that....

About doing composition the x86 side: it is not possible on winuae /os4 as the ppc emul dont have (?) a native interface to call x86 code
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Old 18 February 2021, 12:37   #17
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Hi thellier,
I've been using your programs for a long time,
the topic is probably misleading as to how it was set up.
PatchcompositeTag works with the "Composite3DDdemo" test
http://hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/c3d/
without the use of "PatchcompositeTag" the screen simply remains black and nothing is visible.
Strangely it shouldn't work because as I've read it requires Radeon cards.

While with Odyssey it has no impact and does not accelerate video playback in any way.

While "PatchCompositeTag" has the ability to open the window for playing videos in full screen even if the screen remains black without its use the screen does not open in any way most likely because it requires acceleration
composition YUV
here the test you can watch it at 1:44 if you don't want to see the whole video :
[ Show youtube player ]

in fact if I try to watch a video locally for example with MickJT-Player choosing composition YUV I hear only the audio but the video is not seen.

Back then I thought that if it could make "Composite3DDdemo" work it could also affect video playback and then it could be modified in some way to fit this purpose because "Composite3DDdemo" shouldn't work because it requires a Radeon to work.

I hope I have well explained the tests I did and why I was referring to "PatchCompositeTag"

Obviously the hope was that if with your work you modified "PatchCompositeTag" in some way it could fit the purpose

And thanks again for your software I use it very often with uaegfx.

Last edited by White; 18 February 2021 at 12:55.
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Old 18 February 2021, 15:31   #18
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@thellier

I also forgot to mention as you already know that the version of Odyssey beta07 makes use of compositing for video acceleration this for "real amigas equipped with Radeon cards"

I bring you a brief summary of the features that the acceleration should have in Odyssey:

From beta06, there will be no need to enable "composite" in prefs: gui, everything works even if you disabled it. But it only works on cards that support compositing. Winuae no.

nor use the "YouTube_Fullscreen_Fix.js" script

That script only needs it for those who have the composite video working to change YouTube's built-in video player to ours on the fly, so pressing full screen will start full window rendering. But only on cards that use compositing. Winuae is not included.


Without compositing and without the youtube_fullscreen script, you just have to use the built-in full screen resizing (fullwindow) done for some browsers (like the one you mimic with your user agents).

It will obviously be slow on your side because:

1). you don't have a composition based card (or any patch to use it on winuae)
2). without the youtube_fullscreenfix script and playing with the user-agents you can have all of its full screen than in the real window resized, which makes things even slower as the default, non-resized window mode.

What I was trying to understand is this since "PatchCompositeTag" is able to display Composite3DDdemo (whereas it shouldn't work given the hardware requests).

Could it do that with videos too via program-specific fixes for videos only?

Thanks for a possible answer.
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Old 18 February 2021, 19:56   #19
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@Zarnal

I had earth 2140 I have to find it in the external hd
as soon as i find it i try it.
Thanks for the advice.
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Old 18 February 2021, 20:31   #20
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@thellier

I did another test I don't know if it will be useful
I used the "composite" output with mickjt-player
if I apply "PatchCompositeTag" I can see the video in full screen.
Without your patch the screen simply stays black and I can only see the video in the window.
I leave you a screenshot, hoping it will be useful.

I don't want to insist and just to understand if somehow it could work and could be useful for the purpose.

if i don't have to post further tests i understand it, thanks

Here you can see how the patch works and the video works in full screen.
if i disable the patch i only get a black screen.
I must also say that the video is in any case slowed down to full screen.

[ Show youtube player ]

separate note:
the "composite" test refers to the Voodoo3
while PatchCompositeTag has no effect on uaegfx, the screen always remains black even when the patch is applied.
Maybe with the Voodoo3 the values are different and "PatchCompositeTag" behaves differently (but my opinion could be wrong).

urthermore with uaegfx with composite output a DSI occurs before working in window.

while with voodoo3 everything works perfectly.

even with the YUV output there is no DSI with Voodoo3.
while with uaegfx the DSI occurs.
for both, only the audio is heard and the video is not seen
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Last edited by White; 18 February 2021 at 23:01.
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