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Old 13 October 2010, 12:26   #21
Wicked_Digger
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Originally Posted by EricG View Post
Still .. this is fantastic! ...

Can I presume that somehow the backend uae core/gui-front end will be somewhat separate, so as they forge ahead with improvements in WinUAE it will be easy to incorporate/roll those advances into your version? Or rephrased, atleast they way your doing it will allow for easy-to-incorporate future enhancements from the WinUAE project..? (I haven't really look at the code base at the same level as you obviously have, so this might just be wishful thinking )

Still though anything you guys do will be a huge benefit to the UAE community at large and thank you to all who are trying to move UAE outside of Windows world forward .. !
I think that question is a bit wrong address ...
Historically, the UAE has a good partition into a portable and platform-dependent part, thanks for the founders of this project. Unfortunately WinUAE cloves from this ideology, this project is only for Windows, some of the earlier portable parts, now contain the Windows calls.
It is absolutely clear that the developers for *nix systems will never go along the path of WinUAE, and easy code transfer is impossible.
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Old 13 October 2010, 18:08   #22
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"some of the earlier portable parts, now contain the Windows calls"
"and easy code transfer is impossible."

That is unfortunate and tragic ..
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Old 13 October 2010, 18:35   #23
Toni Wilen
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...

Perhaps because no one has cared or said anything about it previously? (Note that it is WinUAE after all, I don't remember having any kind of contract to keep it portable. Last real attempt died when R.Drummond disappeared and previous one when original author become bored or something.)

Which functions and where?

btw, are "we" (whatever that means, I am not sure) going to work together or do you just want to complain without any attempts to be productive? (Interestingly someone ignored that most of new features I have added are fully portable not counting low level functions that can't be portable but they are always in separate sources, maybe I am paranoid but I think something is missing..)

In other words, should I ignore this ~"attempt number N to make this stupid thing more portable" (which does not include GUI, not yet) or should I go away and keep quiet and keep working with WinUAE as usual?
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Old 13 October 2010, 19:51   #24
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Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
...

Perhaps because no one has cared or said anything about it previously? (Note that it is WinUAE after all, I don't remember having any kind of contract to keep it portable. Last real attempt died when R.Drummond disappeared and previous one when original author become bored or something.)
I'm not saying that's bad, I simply stated a fact. The man asked how you can migrate the code, I said that it is almost impossible to do automatically. Where am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Which functions and where?
Windows exception handling for ex. DX functions.

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btw, are "we" (whatever that means, I am not sure) going to work together or do you just want to complain without any attempts to be productive?
I was not going to extend the functionality or do something in the kernel UAE. I have enough functionality UAE for 10 years. I need an effective (convenience and clarity, I think an integral part of efficiency) debugger, and I'm doing it. My work on Qt frontend is a necessity. I can attach it to the UAE, E-UAE, PUAE.
I was asked to open the code, I did it. People ask me whether it bring him closer to WinUAE, I answer that it is hardly possible.
If you're willing to spend time working on the portability, then it will be very interesting (mostly for GnoStiC) and I can also take part in this project.

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Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
(Interestingly someone ignored that most of new features I have added are fully portable not counting low level functions that can't be portable but they are always in separate sources, maybe I am paranoid but I think something is missing..)
It is noticeable, thanks for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
In other words, should I ignore this ~"attempt number N to make this stupid thing more portable" (which does not include GUI, not yet) or should I go away and keep quiet and keep working with WinUAE as usual?
GnoStiC trying to move the features WinUAE on *nix platforms. I make a Qt frontend based on the code PUAE.
Are you interested? (I think so, once you view these posts)
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Old 13 October 2010, 21:53   #25
Toni Wilen
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Originally Posted by Wicked_Digger View Post
Windows exception handling for ex. DX functions.
I am not sure what you mean by Windows exceptions but at least DirectX (if DX = DirectX) has been used since Brian King's WinUAE versions. WinUAE is never going to use any portable gfx/sound/whatever API because they all are less flexible than DirectX.

About QT GUI: QT is one of the "acceptable" GUIs (uses native GUI elements = does not look "alien") but it is too early for that. Maybe in 3.x or 4.x

WinUAE GUI will be updated to something portable. Someday.

(I think I am finally understanding what are you actually doing, thanks for explaining )
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Old 18 October 2010, 19:10   #26
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it's from scratch, i'll merge it with my master git.
What you did not like my solution?
I would like to immediately determine the basis for further development, I think that if we work together, achieve better results.
As I have said, for me, no matter by whom and how to make the interface. For the most part for me is only important to the debugger, which is hardly interesting to anyone else.
I'm starting work on the interface came from simple things:
- Rapid onset (wellcome screen)
- Usually only one window is required to run
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Old 18 October 2010, 21:09   #27
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For the most part for me is only important to the debugger
Could you elaborate on the nature of your debugger? Is it comparable to WinUAE's or something specialized for a certain task? (Just out of curiosity. )
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Old 18 October 2010, 21:40   #28
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Could you elaborate on the nature of your debugger? Is it comparable to WinUAE's or something specialized for a certain task? (Just out of curiosity. )
At the first stage of "my" ( ) debugger, this is only a UI for the debugger built into the UAE. I have the opportunity to make a UI more convenient than WinUAE, and I actively use (dockable windows, scrolling, etc.). I want (as possible) to approach the functionality of modern IDE debuggers (VS for example).
In the process, I am looking for an opportunity to improve the debugger, but it is quite difficult, because requires a deep knowledge of the internal device AmigaOS (for example - which has the structure "seglist" returned by LoadSeg).
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Old 18 October 2010, 23:00   #29
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What you did not like my solution?
I think there's two fundamentally different yet similar approaches here.

gnostic has built a QT UI that allows access to everything as WinUAE does: that'll give maximum functionality in minimum time. Given that PUAE is about bringing the best of WinUAE to other platforms, I think that's a great thing to do and I can't wait for this.

What you're building is a new approach to the GUI. Again, this is a great thing to do but I suspect it'll require a lot more work and it'll require a little bit more integration into the core of WinUAE. This is a worthwhile project too.

Both have their purpose: gnostic's is, to me, the one that'll get WinUAE functionality onto other platforms quickly. I can't wait to use it!

Yours is the one that'll change the approach of all UAE emulators. I can't wait to see where this goes and, ultimately, get a revolution in the GUI.
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Old 19 October 2010, 03:52   #30
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I think there's two fundamentally different yet similar approaches here.

gnostic has built a QT UI that allows access to everything as WinUAE does: that'll give maximum functionality in minimum time. Given that PUAE is about bringing the best of WinUAE to other platforms, I think that's a great thing to do and I can't wait for this.

What you're building is a new approach to the GUI. Again, this is a great thing to do but I suspect it'll require a lot more work and it'll require a little bit more integration into the core of WinUAE. This is a worthwhile project too.

Both have their purpose: gnostic's is, to me, the one that'll get WinUAE functionality onto other platforms quickly. I can't wait to use it!

Yours is the one that'll change the approach of all UAE emulators. I can't wait to see where this goes and, ultimately, get a revolution in the GUI.
Unfortunately, I probably would not have sufficient analytical ability to make such profound conclusions from a single screen shot
My question was addressed to the author's name, because I do not see the code.
I am well aware that I alone will hardly be able to quickly make a finished product, for this reason that I would be happy to work in a team. But to work together, we would like as soon as possible to agree on basic approaches. This applies more to the part of the architectural decisions.
The fact that the dialogues and other snap-in can be done really quickly using Qt, but it is possible that the inconsistency of architectural decisions will lead to inability to use the achievements of each other in the future. This will be a great loss.
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Old 19 October 2010, 08:39   #31
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@wd:
frankly, i liked your approach to the gui, i believe your's would be more user friendly.

BUT
my qt version is a 1on1 winuae clone as i want to make sure i have all the features working as they should be (as they are in winuae).. i even have the control object names same as winuae.. this makes sync'ing and browsing easier for me..
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Old 19 October 2010, 12:22   #32
chiark
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Unfortunately, I probably would not have sufficient analytical ability to make such profound conclusions from a single screen shot
It's fairly obvious what gnostic is doing from the screenshot, and the reasons for PUAE are exceptionally well known... I think you've also stated a few times the way that you'd like to take the GUI and what you think is needed?

But anyhow, that's besides the point. Good luck to both of you.

Quote:
but it is possible that the inconsistency of architectural decisions will lead to inability to use the achievements of each other in the future.
PUAE is trying to port WinUAE enhancements back to UAE. That'll mean that for the moment the architecture is what it is.

If a universal GUI is to exist, it needs to go back into UAE too, so it makes sense to me to get PUAE working well with the GUI architecture as-is, and as a separate strand of work go into the re-architecture of the GUI.

I'll shut up now as it seems you want to discuss this with gnostic only...

Last edited by chiark; 19 October 2010 at 12:33.
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