English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware > Hardware mods

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 14 March 2010, 22:53   #81
Jope
-
Jope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Helsinki / Finland
Age: 37
Posts: 6,416
Send a message via Skype™ to Jope
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaboy View Post
The A500 and A590 do not like to be started simultaneously so it seems .
So you have tried it and ran into problems, or what leads you to this conclusion?
Jope is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 15 March 2010, 00:17   #82
Kakaboy
Amiga life crisis
Kakaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney/Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
So you have tried it and ran into problems, or what leads you to this conclusion?
I have tried it . Wired A500 and A590 into the same PSU .
When I turn PSU on the A590 powers on (Red Led) and the A500 does not .

When I disconnect the A590 from the A500 and power them up individually they work .

Now from my understanding reading past threads that all you need to connect (A590) is the +12v, +5v & GND .

But they dont power up together ???

When I was running seperate PSU's the A590 always powered up first (according to the Red Leds) then the A500 , then the HDD started to boot .

But seems like the Power Send has something to do with it as far as the A590 waiting for a response from the A500 before power up .
Kakaboy is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 03:37   #83
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,926
@Jope

This is the A590 manual page 4, please read the top line.

Loedown is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 09:26   #84
Jope
-
Jope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Helsinki / Finland
Age: 37
Posts: 6,416
Send a message via Skype™ to Jope
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaboy View Post
I have tried it . Wired A500 and A590 into the same PSU .
When I turn PSU on the A590 powers on (Red Led) and the A500 does not .

When I disconnect the A590 from the A500 and power them up individually they work.
Meaning that you kept them connected to the same power supply, but the A590 wasn't plugged into the side of the A500?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loedown View Post
@Jope

This is the A590 manual page 4, please read the top line.
I take it you mean this piece of text:

"The Host Power supply provided +5 volts to this Assembly through an 86-pin connector where it enables the A590 external power supply."

Yeah, that's how it works originally.

I know what point you're trying to make, but that point isn't really made with that excerpt of text..

I guess it's time to build that relay circuit and see what happens. I'm interested in seeing the end result here, hopefully that is it.
Jope is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 10:15   #85
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
"The Host Power supply provided +5 volts to this Assembly through an 86-pin connector where it enables the A590 external power supply."
I have an A590 and I can assure you that it will not start unless it's plugged into an A500 and the A500 is turned on, perhaps mine is a different revision to yours, but that's the only way it works.
Loedown is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 10:50   #86
Jope
-
Jope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Helsinki / Finland
Age: 37
Posts: 6,416
Send a message via Skype™ to Jope
I was on the subject of using something else than the A590's original power supply to give it life, as I was under the impression, that this is what Kakaboy is also striving to achieve.

Like I said before, I have had an A590 that I powered with a non-original power supply that didn't have this relay in it, just a physical power switch. My A500 session would start by turning on the A590's PSU, then the A500's PSU and it would work. Warm reboots would also work. I sometimes powered up the A500 and then the A590 and it would still work, but the A500 would hang until the A590 came alive.

I'm in here just to get an understanding why they can't be powered up simultaneously. I'm curious about this, because the A2091 (which is 99% the same electrical design as the A590) is totally happy being powered up at the same time as the rest of the computer. Also, you can add wires to the A590 to get it's operating voltages from the AmigaBUS, which also bypasses this relay circuit and it will still work.

But since you already offered to fix this for Kakaboy, please do so and also please document your findings for the benefit of the rest of us.

Last edited by Jope; 15 March 2010 at 10:58.
Jope is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 11:32   #87
Kakaboy
Amiga life crisis
Kakaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney/Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 256
Sorry , to clarify my statement I had to power individually . Unplug(power cable) one and power up the other and vise versa . This is while A590 is not connected to expansion port of A500 . They both powered up individually but when connected together and run off the same PSU with 1 (one) power switch the A500 does not power up .

The A590 had these wires connected to PSU:
Brown - +12v
Red - +5v
Black - GND

It seems people have used seperate AT PSU for alternative power for A590 and timed the power on with their A500 either before or after . Although JOPE you said that you power them up simultaneously which is the same scenario as mine except in seperate PSU's .

So to be clear I would like to use the ONE PSU to power both .

Last edited by Kakaboy; 15 March 2010 at 11:41.
Kakaboy is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 11:53   #88
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
I was on the subject of using something else than the A590's original power supply to give it life, as I was under the impression, that this is what Kakaboy is also striving to achieve.

Like I said before, I have had an A590 that I powered with a non-original power supply that didn't have this relay in it, just a physical power switch. My A500 session would start by turning on the A590's PSU, then the A500's PSU and it would work. Warm reboots would also work. I sometimes powered up the A500 and then the A590 and it would still work, but the A500 would hang until the A590 came alive.

I'm in here just to get an understanding why they can't be powered up simultaneously. I'm curious about this, because the A2091 (which is 99% the same electrical design as the A590) is totally happy being powered up at the same time as the rest of the computer. Also, you can add wires to the A590 to get it's operating voltages from the AmigaBUS, which also bypasses this relay circuit and it will still work.

But since you already offered to fix this for Kakaboy, please do so and also please document your findings for the benefit of the rest of us.
Ok, the pin that's marked as 'power sense' picks up a 5V signal from the A500, this is taken from pin 6 on the expansion port, which is Vcc or +5. Without the circuit diagram for the A590 power supply I can't tell you how that is interfaced with the A590 supply

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=460602&postcount=13

So it in itself starts a relay, exactly the same tach I am going down now and in further light of where the power sense goes, a simple 5 volt coil relay with a diode will be enough, don't need the transistor driver at all.

Merlin describes in that post leaving the power sense line 'floating' which is peculiar, maybe there were two revisions of the A590?

The other likely cause is there's a pin which on power on may be high, but then switches to low state which is stopping the A500 from starting, ie. it's holding a necessary pin low in the A500 on the 86 pin interface.

Commodore obviously had a reason for doing it the way it has been done and like the 1240 to 1260 mod, it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, so if you simply emulate the circuit that commodore used, then you bypass any problems.
Loedown is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 12:17   #89
Merlin
AmiBay MegaMod
Merlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 55
Posts: 1,163
The issue in the earlier A590 thread was related to using an A600 PSU to power the A590 and it works 100%. I didn't connect pin 3 on the A590 power plug as the A590 senses 5v from the edge connector as the A500 powers up.

The relay just switches the mains in on the A590 PSU and to be honest it isn't needed, as it's function is merely to allow the A500 to control the A590's power supply, so that the A590 isn't powered on all of the time. I find that the off switch on the A600 PSU works just as well...
Merlin is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 12:31   #90
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
The issue in the earlier A590 thread was related to using an A600 PSU to power the A590 and it works 100%. I didn't connect pin 3 on the A590 power plug as the A590 senses 5v from the edge connector as the A500 powers up.

The relay just switches the mains in on the A590 PSU and to be honest it isn't needed, as it's function is merely to allow the A500 to control the A590's power supply, so that the A590 isn't powered on all of the time. I find that the off switch on the A600 PSU works just as well...
Then this becomes rather perplexing, if Merlin you are saying that it all works just fine without the need for the power sense line, I wonder why Kakaboy is having so many issues with a PC supply? The A500 draws enough to turn the AT supply on, that's provable by the adapters I have. This relay circuit is just an elegent way of making it all work as it was meant to, unless it's more for a warm boot of the A500?

@Merlin, what happens if you warm boot the A500, does the A590 *seem* to start from scratch, ie. sound like it's spinning up the drive again?

There still must be a reason why Commodore did it this way.
Loedown is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 12:35   #91
Kakaboy
Amiga life crisis
Kakaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney/Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
The issue in the earlier A590 thread was related to using an A600 PSU to power the A590 and it works 100%. I didn't connect pin 3 on the A590 power plug as the A590 senses 5v from the edge connector as the A500 powers up.

The relay just switches the mains in on the A590 PSU and to be honest it isn't needed, as it's function is merely to allow the A500 to control the A590's power supply, so that the A590 isn't powered on all of the time. I find that the off switch on the A600 PSU works just as well...
I read that thread when I was going thru this issue . There seems to be a few conflicting results but none are identical to say that is exactly the same problem .

I wish your result was mine but unfortunately it isnt .

I have used +5 rail on AT PSU to power +5 on A500 & A590 and so forth for the remaining wiring . but when I hit the switch the A500 does not want to power up and im left with only the A590 with RED LED on .

Maybe different A500 revisions work slightly differently who knows . Mine is A5rev mobo .
Kakaboy is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 15:18   #92
Zetr0
Ya' like it Retr0?
Zetr0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43
Posts: 9,769
just a point to mention:

it may be that by powering both devices off the same ATX brick my be pulling the power under 5volts, just enough (say around 4.76volts) this might be too low for the A590 5volt *sense* to start up.

I would look at attempting two PSU's, fire up the A500 and then A590 see what that gets you.
Zetr0 is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 21:13   #93
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
just a point to mention:

it may be that by powering both devices off the same ATX brick my be pulling the power under 5volts, just enough (say around 4.76volts) this might be too low for the A590 5volt *sense* to start up.

I would look at attempting two PSU's, fire up the A500 and then A590 see what that gets you.
The A590 draws a maximum of 2.6A on startup for the +12 rail, continuous 0.85A, the 5V rail isn't listed on startup, but draws 1A continuous. A500 supply is listed as 4.3A on the +5V rail, A 590 is listed as 3A. I have a 430W PC supply here which lists +5V rail as 0.3A min, 8A max, so assuming that Commodore had some brains, their supplies were 20% lower than the maximum draw, if we exclude all the add ons for the A500 which also drew power from the supply, then you get a figure of 5.84A.

The only other issue Zetr0 is that it's the A500 which isn't starting, not the A590 and the sense line wasn't connected.
Loedown is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 21:21   #94
Merlin
AmiBay MegaMod
Merlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 55
Posts: 1,163
@ Zetr0

If you power the A590 up with a modded A600 PSU attached, you get a red LED that flashes for a second. It's only as you power up the A500 that the A590 comes properly to life with a green power LED.

@ Kakaboy

What hard drive is in the A590, XT-IDE or SCSI? Has the drive type jumper been correctly set and what settings for SCSI ID and termination are set for the SCSI controller and drive, if you are using SCSI? The A590 prefers certain SCSI IDs and won't work with some IDs.
Merlin is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 23:02   #95
Kakaboy
Amiga life crisis
Kakaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney/Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
@ Zetr0

If you power the A590 up with a modded A600 PSU attached, you get a red LED that flashes for a second. It's only as you power up the A500 that the A590 comes properly to life with a green power LED.

@ Kakaboy

What hard drive is in the A590, XT-IDE or SCSI? Has the drive type jumper been correctly set and what settings for SCSI ID and termination are set for the SCSI controller and drive, if you are using SCSI? The A590 prefers certain SCSI IDs and won't work with some IDs.
Its the standard 20mb XT-IDE HDD . I have done nothing with it and it worked fine before I changed the cable over to the AT PSU .

Kakaboy is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 23:06   #96
Kakaboy
Amiga life crisis
Kakaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney/Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
just a point to mention:

it may be that by powering both devices off the same ATX brick my be pulling the power under 5volts, just enough (say around 4.76volts) this might be too low for the A590 5volt *sense* to start up.

I would look at attempting two PSU's, fire up the A500 and then A590 see what that gets you.
I might wire the cable back into the original PSU and try firing them up with seperate PSU's and see if they start up .

Only problem I have is I cut the wires too close to the PCB and cant work out where 3 of them go . If any one has a snapshot of their A590 PCB so I can see the wiring would be great ! Or I can find another AT PSU and hook it up .
Kakaboy is offline  
Old 15 March 2010, 23:39   #97
prowler
Global Moderator

prowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sidcup, England
Posts: 10,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaboy View Post
I cut the wires too close to the PCB and cant work out where 3 of them go . If any one has a snapshot of their A590 PCB so I can see the wiring would be great !
Do you mean the A590 PSU PCB?

I'm stripping it now...
prowler is offline  
Old 16 March 2010, 00:14   #98
Kakaboy
Amiga life crisis
Kakaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney/Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by prowler View Post
Do you mean the A590 PSU PCB?

I'm stripping it now...
Yes the A590 . Thanks prowler .

I also have to replace a capacitor as I was a little heavy handed and snapped one of the pin s

Can you display info for one of the BIG capacitors that sits among the 3 wires please prowler . I want to get one on the way home from work but dont have it with me .
Kakaboy is offline  
Old 16 March 2010, 00:28   #99
prowler
Global Moderator

prowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sidcup, England
Posts: 10,285
Okay, it would be a bit tricky to take a picture of this PSU board as there's so many tall components obscuring the view, so I'll try my best to describe the wiring.

If you look at the PSU with the mains lead and switch at the top and the DC output lead at the bottom, there is a large heat sink down the left hand side of the PCB.

In the bottom left hand corner near the mounting screw, three of the output wires are connected. From left to right they are green, brown and white.

Next one along is the red wire, connected just above the pillar for the external case screw.

Finally, there are the black and grey wires. The grey wire is lower down, nearer the edge of the board, and the black wire is above it, in the gap between the two electrolytic capacitors and the trimpot.

Does that help?

Edit: I've just seen your request for info on one of the capactors between the red, grey and black wires. Hang on, I'll go and fetch a torch...

Got it! Those two capacitors are 1000F, 16V components, about 25mm high and about 13mm in diameter. And the BIGGER pair, nearer to the three wires in the bottom left hand corner are 2200F, 10V components, again about 25mm high and about 16mm diameter.

Last edited by prowler; 16 March 2010 at 00:43.
prowler is offline  
Old 16 March 2010, 00:32   #100
Kakaboy
Amiga life crisis
Kakaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney/Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by prowler View Post
Okay, it would be a bit tricky to take a picture of this PSU board as there's so many tall components obscuring the view, so I'll try my best to describe the wiring.

If you look at the PSU with the mains lead and switch at the top and the DC output lead at the bottom, there is a large heat sink down the left hand side of the PCB.

In the bottom left hand corner near the mounting screw, three of the output wires are connected. From left to right they are green, brown and white.

Next one along is the red wire, connected just above the pillar for the external case screw.

Finally, there are the black and grey wires. The grey wire is lower down, nearer the edge of the board, and the black wire is above it, in the gap between the two electrolytic capacitors and the trimpot.

Does that help?
Yep thats fine . I left some colour on the green,brown & white its just the other three .

What about capacitor ? its the closest one to the DC cable side . Not sure if the two are identical ??

OK THANKS MATE !

I will put it back together and keep it as a spare as Loedown is organising me a new cable with Relay mod . Hope it still works as im not sure if it did before ...

EDIT: Yeah its the two that are among the black,grey & red wires . I damaged it when I was cutting one of the wires off the PCB . "Damn you SHREK hands !!"

Last edited by Kakaboy; 16 March 2010 at 00:52.
Kakaboy is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Black Amiga PSU BippyM support.Hardware 10 08 March 2013 10:47
A4000 PSU Fan mod alexh Hardware pics 15 01 January 2013 15:31
Amiga 4000 PSU Fan Mod edd_jedi Hardware mods 8 30 December 2012 18:02
HIGHLY recommended PSU mod for A4000D users keropi Hardware pics 19 31 March 2007 16:54
A4000 PSU -> Mini-ATX PSU mod keropi Hardware mods 40 26 February 2007 21:26

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.35477 seconds with 12 queries