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Old 05 March 2006, 11:52   #1
Calgor
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Help: Setting up new A4000D system

Hi fellow amiga addicts,

I am in the process of setting up my A4000D system so that I can have a proper amiga system to do my amiga stuff on. Being new to the Amiga with hard drives world (I only had an A1000 b4), I need some advice on setting it up (hardware and software) that I hope some EAB experts can provide.

I plan to eventually have an O/S 3.9 + boing bag 2 on a large IDE hard drive, so I can play games, do some programming, dpainting, etc.... and then Amiga O/S 4 on a SCSI hard drive when it comes out......

This is what I am thinking of putting in the A4000D box:
- Cyberstorm PPC 060-50 + 604e-233
- Cybervision PPC
- 250 GB 3.5 inch IDE Hard drive (cheap and large, no speed needed)
- 10mbps A2065 compatible network card
- Toccata 16 bit sound card
- Picasso IV graphics card + Paloma IV

Questions:
1. What is max size of hard drive o/s 3.9 can support? And can I just take any of the new IDE hard drives out there? (IDE, not SATA)
2. Is it possible to have both Picasso IV and Cybervision PPC running at same time? (Cybergrafx vs Picasso 96.....)
3. Is there an overheating problem (is it unsafe?) with either PPC 204e chip (fan working) or Cybervision card (maybe this could fry an egg?) ?
4. Will the standard A4000D power supply be enough?

Note that I currently have some of the above running, and I have all the parts except the IDE drive, but I need to do a fresh install (which I have not done b4).

Thanks for any help, hope there aren't too many questions!! Once I get this set up then I can start actually using an amiga and join in the fun!! Bit hard to contribute with a floppy only amiga.....
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Old 05 March 2006, 13:49   #2
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1. OS3.9 supports 64 bit addressing so you can access 18TB of disk space.
2. Yes, if you have two monitors, one per card.
3. Its certainly better than a A1200, I don`t think over heating is a problem.
4. Depends on the wattage, with so much equipment, the higher the better.
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Old 05 March 2006, 14:00   #3
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There is no LBA 48 support in OS 3.9, so 128 GB is the maximum HDD size. Sorry, no 250 GB possible on the internal IDE bus (but anything above 10 GB is plenty of space anyway, you don't need more).

Be sure to create a working OS 3.9 emergency disk before you start to reinstall. And when partioning the new drive make sure the new boot partition is smaller than 2 GB and is entirely inside the first 4 GB of the drive.

Bye,
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Old 05 March 2006, 17:34   #4
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Overheating can be an issue if you obstruct the ventilation passage which leads to the power supply
If you use round IDE/SCSI cables and route them wisely you should be on the safer side.
It's just the A4000 PSU fan which draws hot air out of the case and it isn't good at doing that
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Old 05 March 2006, 17:40   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgor
1. What is max size of hard drive o/s 3.9 can support? And can I just take any of the new IDE hard drives out there? (IDE, not SATA)
If you attach the IDE drive to your SCSI controller with an ACard adaptor, you can use all 250 GB. The SCSI controller isn't as picky as the IDE controller.
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Old 05 March 2006, 18:43   #6
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I haven't really looked into larger drives than 4GB for my Amiga..... (Not that I can use them atm anyway, acc-problems) but...... as long as the boot partition is located below the 4GB barrier, it doesn't matter how large the HD is? (I don't really see any point with a bootpartition much larger than 100MB, anyways.... apart from libs and fonts, I don't generally put things on that partition anyroads)
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Old 05 March 2006, 20:02   #7
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Definately get an ACARD SCSIDE adapter. It would be a terrible waste to have all that fast DMA SCSI available and limit yourself to slow non-DMA IDE.
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Old 05 March 2006, 20:02   #8
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Thomas is right about the HD limitation. I have a 120g and 60g running on this particular desktop. I have a Cyberstorm 604e running in another A4000 but that is a tower so the heat thing is slightly different. Although I must say it does heat up when doing alot of say video playback. I have mine permanently set up with the side removed and a desk fan that points into the entire computer.

Come to think of it, even this desktop here has the top removed.

Some of this is probably unneccessary but since this entire room is dedicated to just my Amigas who cares if things hang out here and there...

now I have a question for you, how exactly did a return user get hold of a Cybervision PPC? grrr... heh

I have plently of Cybervision64/3D cards and others just not the one I really want...
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Old 05 March 2006, 20:42   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mindie
as long as the boot partition is located below the 4GB barrier, it doesn't matter how large the HD is?
During the boot process new drivers have to be loaded in order to access anything above the 4GB border. Without such drivers (e.g. IDEfix97, AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9) you cannot access more than the first 4GB of the HDD.

This only applies to the internal IDE controller of the A4000, A1200 and A600. Other controllers might have other limits.

Another advantage of the CSPPC SCSI controller is that it supports large HDDs by itself. Together with an appropiate file system (SFS, PFS3, FFSTD64) the boot partition can be anywhere on the drive and of any size.

Anyway, before you copy files to a HDD which is larger than 4GB, you should run Check4GB from Aminet to see if your partitioning is correct.
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Old 06 March 2006, 15:19   #10
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Thank you Thomas.

I've got a4GB internal IDE, so I don't "have the problem" as of such...... it's quite big enough for me, I'd think :P

I've also got a 4GB SCSI connected via SurfSquirrel and a SCSI tower, along with a SCSI CD-ROM there...... But the next time I'm chning a HD from the PC, I'll have to see into howto make the Amiga the 40GB currently in the PC
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Old 07 March 2006, 10:59   #11
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Thanks everyone for all your responses, it certainly helps a lot!

I guess I will put both graphics cards in and if there is a problem take one out.

Will definitely be running it with case open until the system is "burned in", just to eliminate the possibility of heat being a problem.

Looks like the standard A4000 power supply will be fine, not like i have 2 internal 3.5 inch 7200rpm hard drives, though i will look for one with less power consumption. (2.5 inch too expensive like double the price... although.....less heat...less power... and don't need all the excess speed... sounds good for internal drive!) btw, I plan to have internal drive first just to make things easier to move around and my desk is cluttered

I think i should get 120GB max hard drive size just so I have less chance of problems. I want to register for whdload and install everything i can! So I need the space for that along with all the mp3s.

SCSI will come later (don't worry, I will use it!)... too much work for me at moment. Need to get all the cables and terminators from somewhere, then I could think about getting that scsi-ideadapter and plonking the hard drive there. Apparently new scsi hard drives are $$$$$$$$ and noisy.

Will need to wait for weekend to get the hard drive and install.

Thanks again! Will have more questions I am sure when I get to the next step. I would like to do a review of Picasso IV vs Cybervision PPC once i get it setup......
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Old 07 March 2006, 14:11   #12
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Just out of curiosity do you have a Cyberstorm card, or are you planning to buy one?

I've been looking for ANY cyberstorm card for ages and never found one for a reasonable price.
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Old 07 March 2006, 15:10   #13
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@alexh

It's now the second time I see you have mentioned your problems getting hold of an accelerator. Now a CyberStorm and before that a Blizzard board. How about biting the bullet, and pay the cash the sellers want???

-EDIT-

How about buying this one

Quote:
A4000 desktop in Elbox Winner tower, CyberstormPPC 060/50MHz 604/233MHz 128MB RAM, CybervisionPPC, Mediator 4000D, Kickflash OS4, Soundblaster 128, 3 x 9.1GB SCSI HD, Plextor SCSI CDRW, SCSI ZIP100, Mikronik 1.44MB floppy drive, A4000 keyboard, Wizard 3 button mouse, Lyra PC keyboard adaptor, Cocolino PS2 mouse adaptor, PSX Port and PS DualShock control pad, Ariadne II network card, several years worth of CU Amiga and Amiga Format magazines with cover CDs, large quantity of classic and new original games (eg Payback, Cadaver, Speris Legacy, lots of Team17 titles, Napalm, Capital Punishment, T-Zero, too many to list here) plus productivity software. Also a few programming books (Total Amiga Assembler, Complete Amiga C, Amiga C for Beginners) , cables and many other bits and pieces.

Offers of at least £1000 only, no split. Don't mail to say I'm asking too much for an outdated system, this is an antique in the same league as a ming vase, you know this or you wouldn't be browsing this site. Time wasters will be flamed to hell and back. That means YOU MR MULLER from Denmark.

Last edited by DoctorQ; 08 March 2006 at 23:01.
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Old 08 March 2006, 04:35   #14
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A few more questions I hope you folks can answer:

1. What is the latest version of the cybergrafx drivers? (I think 4.x but not sure which one - found this website http://web.archive.org/web/20030621123205/vgr.com/v4/ - need the Cybergrafx 4 CD)

2. What is the latest version of the Picasso 96 drivers? (I have found http://www.picasso96.cogito.de/ - Version 2.0, but I think there may be a later one this is so old)

3. What is the latest version of the Toccata sound card drivers? (I see AHI 6.0 at http://www.lysator.liu.se/ahi/, but do I also need the toccata.library standard drivers? I see toccata.library v9.10 at http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?id=toccata)

4. What is best site for help on installing O/S 3.9 from scratch (the FAQ seems to only have for O/S 3.9 in WinUAE not sure how applicable)

Please hit me over the head if a question is obvious.

Thanks!

@alexh

It is expensive believe me. I couldn't be bothered waiting for years, otherwise it would never happen. And you want to be sure the $$$ thing works. I essentially did what DoctorQ suggested.

Last edited by Calgor; 08 March 2006 at 04:58. Reason: Edited question 3 and 4 for more info after looking at FAQ
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Old 11 March 2006, 17:11   #15
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Well I see everyone is too busy coding on Amiga OS4, or my questions were silly! No matter.

@thomas
Thanks heaps for the emergency disk tip, saved me a bit of hassle i reckon with the cybervision ppc. Also your guide and website proved very handy to install and partition for OS3.9.

Although, for some reason HDToolbox won't let me partition a total of more than 7.0Gb. I have currently got only the boot partition on the first 1.7Gb of the hard drive. Yet to install boingbag1&2 as I am worried about the partitioning.

How do I use up 137Gb(decimal)/128Gb(binary) of the 160Gb(binary?) hard drive space? Is there something I need to do in HDToolbox?

Also, is it okay for me to leave the boot partition as FFS International, and format the others as SFS or something?

Thanks again.
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Old 11 March 2006, 21:01   #16
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Regarding your questions: IMHO you should start with something that actually works and only look for updates if you have problems. Usually the very latest release of a software brings only all of the latest bugs rather than all of the latest fixes.

However, here are some links for CGX V4:
http://www.vesalia.de/e_cgx4.htm
http://powerup.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=14

Regarding the 7.8GB limit, this is the result of 16 heads, 63 sectors and 16384 cylinders which is the maximum which can be stored in the CHS format used by old PC BIOSes. If you want to use more than the first 7.8GB of the HDD, you have to adjust these values manually. After installation of the Boingbags HDToolbox should recognise better values by itself.

As for FFS or SFS for the boot partition, if you want to get the full speed benefit from SFS, you should install it to the boot partition, too.
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Old 12 March 2006, 15:35   #17
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As this thread has useful info & is too good to be in 'New to Emulation / Amiga scene' forum, I decided to move this to 'prb.Hardware'
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Old 12 March 2006, 17:40   #18
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Hello all,

I plugged in everything i mentioned above, apart from the picasso graphics board + tv tuner (this is later when everything is smooth). It was all running fine for a few hours, so far so good.

Now I was installing BoingBag 1 + 2 in the hopes of afterward adding some additional partitions to use up the whole hard disk.

After boingBag1 I played around a bit and it was fine. But then after boingbag2, the computer would sometimes freeze. By this I mean when I typed in "dir" in the shell sometimes it would freeze the whole system including the mouse and just hang, or when I opened up a folder in workbench, or if I loaded the Amplifier music program. Maybe if there was no hard disk activity it would not hang - just a maybe here.

Found a way to definitely reproduce every time, so it must be a software issue:
1. Cold boot amiga with "DEVS:AmigaOS ROM Update" being the BoingBag2 version.
2. Right Amiga-E to get execute command window
3. Execute newshell
4. Type "dir" -> lists RAM Disk current directory
5. Type "dir c:" -> freezes

So then I copied back in DEVS: the "AmigaOS ROM Update.old" to "AmigaOS Update ROM" as suggested by the install script if there were problems, and rebooted. Still the same problem. Rebooted again (must be a hard reset/cold boot need to take the changed rom updates). Now all the problems seem to have disappeared, and it worked without crashing like just before BB2.

I should have Cybergrafx 4 installed as that's what I had on the hard disk when I created the emergency disk and i selected yes to copy it over or retain it whenever i was asked. There should I think be no drivers installed for the network card or toccata sound card.

I also think I have the older OS3.9 CD (red), so I am not sure if that is causing any problems with any bugs.

Is there particular library or device versions I should check? powerpc? warpup? scsi? cybergfx? exec? ffs? Or is it possible FFS is causing the problem even though I only have one 1.7gb partition?

Sorry about the long post, but i thought the details might help. Unless someone has come across this before with a 68k+PPC board, it may be hard to diagnose.

@thomas

Right again! The updated HDToolBox when I click on install and read the configuration shows the full 127.9Gb! Do I have to "Install" the drive again? I have heard that installing the drive again says that it will destroy the data, but actually doesn't as long as you keep your existing partitions the same, with the same filesystem type (later library version?) and don't reformat those ones - is this true??? If not, then I will create another emergency disk, install the drive again, and then reinstall OS3.9+BB2.

After I am happy with my OS3.9, then I will install SFS on all the other partitions, and eventually on the boot one (after copying all files to mirror backup boot partition )

Thanks heaps.
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Old 19 March 2006, 17:16   #19
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Okay, after reading the docs, it says BoingBag2 ROM Update is not guaranteed to work on all hardware. But surely someone out there with Cyberstorm PPC + Cybervision PPC has installed OS3.9+BoingBag2 successfully? And I would have thought that the PPC cards would have been one of the major hardware configs they would have tested it on!

I reinstalled AmigaOS3.9 after "installing" the disk with the lastest HDToolBox, so now I have no problems with the hard disk size.

But this time I did not copy over existing from Emergency Disk CDROM drivers or graphics card/PPC drivers - so infact I have a vanilla OS3.9 setup. But this time BB2 doesn't even let the machine boot up. BB1 ROM Updates work perfectly, although Cybervision PPC is of course in a very basic graphics mode without cybergraphx.

Does anyone out there have any experience with Cyberstorm PPC + Cybervision PPC + OS3.9+BB2 and what they needed to make it work?

Thanks.
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Old 19 March 2006, 18:24   #20
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I have got an A4000D with CSPPC + CVPPC + 128MB RAM + X-Surf network card + 20GB HDD + DVD-ROM drive in the standard desktop case and I have no problems with the ROM update of BB2.

I also have another A4000D with a CSPPC in a tower case which had the CVPPC before without problems and now it has a Meditor + Voodoo3 and still no problems.

How big is your HDD and how is it divided into partitons ?
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