English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 25 January 2012, 13:28   #1
mikele
Registered User
mikele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: poland
Posts: 286
why Sonic wasn't possible on stock Amiga?

I was Amiga and Sega Genesis owner at the same time and imho those attempts to bring "Sonic killer" to Amiga resulted in rather mediocre games that didn't match the Sonic in terms of speed, graphics detail, level design. What's funny according to documentary film Yuji Naka had to slow down game's speed a bit before final release!

What was 16 bit Sega's advantage over Amiga? Better skilled dev teams & huge budgets? Direct access to storage (cartridge)? Why wasn't plain vanilla A500 able to do sth like that?


mikele is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 25 January 2012, 13:41   #2
Mequa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 497
The likes of Kid Chaos showed Sonic-style parallax scrolling was possible on a vanilla A500, although other platformers such as Zool 2 were less impressive in this regard.

I'm not sure what graphical tricks the between-level stages such as above used on the Genesis/Mega Drive.
The tunnel sequences in A500 Stardust seemed similar though. Also remember A500 was older than the Genesis/Mega Drive.
Mequa is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 14:09   #3
Retro1234
5150

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sycophantazia
Posts: 3,715
7*8 dual playfield come on that was a bit crappy but it was possible and nice avatar
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 16:27   #4
hitchhikr
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: somewhere
Posts: 360
Sonic 1 & 2 were ported to the Master System and the GameGear and Sonic Pocket to the Neo Geo Pocket so a downgraded version of the MegaDrive opus would have been possible on Amiga 500.

The reasons you describe + the tiles based video engine which is an advantage for platform games, also the MegaDrive could display 80 16x16 masked sprites and 2 independent playfields with a palette of 64 (3 bit like the ST) colors at full frame rate, that was the fixed specs of the machine, programmers had to play around this and didn't have to waste time in ultra-optimized sprites engine but could, for example, focus on programming proper physics engine like in Sonic.
Also they could move big blocks on the screen made of these 80 sprites and make the background more interactive which was impossible on Amiga.

On Amiga there was no real fixed specs: a lot depended on the program's optimization and the programmers smartness, of course the time spent on optimizing wasn't spent on improving the gameplay and it showed in many Amiga games which were dashed off in term of gameplay (even if they looked and sounded rather good).

Last edited by hitchhikr; 25 January 2012 at 16:57.
hitchhikr is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 17:08   #5
seuden
uber cool demi god

seuden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kent/England
Posts: 1,899
Sonic 2 was ported to the Master System?

They're totally different games and afair so are the Sonic 1's.
seuden is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 17:21   #6
hitchhikr
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: somewhere
Posts: 360
On Master System:

- Sonic Blast
- Sonic Chaos
- Sonic Spinball
- Sonic The Hedgehog
- Sonic The Hedgehog 2

On Game Gear:

- Sonic Blast
- Sonic Chaos
- Sonic Labyrinth
- Sonic Spinball
- Sonic The Hedgehog
- Sonic The Hedgehog - Triple Trouble
- Sonic The Hedgehog 2

Sonic 1 on the Master System (runs at full frame rate on the console):

[ Show youtube player ]

Sonic 2 (also runs at full framerate):

[ Show youtube player ]
hitchhikr is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 17:54   #7
s2325
Zone Friend

s2325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gargore
Age: 37
Posts: 17,639
I think Sonic Labyrinth is bad joke, same as choppy Sonic Spinball for Master System.
s2325 is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 19:44   #8
Codetapper
2 contact me: email only!

Codetapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Auckland / New Zealand
Posts: 3,128
Don't forget that Sega didn't allow Sonic to be ported to the Amiga aswell! Rumours are that US Gold were going to convert it, but if that was the case it probably would have gone to Tiertex and then we would all be complaining about what a lousy version of Sonic we had on the Amiga!
Codetapper is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 20:20   #9
P-J
EAB veteran... Honest!
P-J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Warwickshire, England
Age: 37
Posts: 1,144
Send a message via MSN to P-J
Apples and oranges really. The fact that they were both 16-bit is a red herring. The Megadrive was designed from the ground up to play games and shift lots of data round the screen quickly. The Amiga was designed for spreadsheets. Not saying the Amiga didn't have amazing games, but the MD hardware was designed with solely gaming in mind.

C64 vs Master System is another example.
P-J is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 21:01   #10
khph_re
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northampton/UK
Posts: 245
the amiga was designed as a games machine, and changed to a computer after the console crash. It was obviousy a pretty good one, as it was still getting games nine years after launch.

I think sonic would nave been possible, but perhaps not quite as pretty. Less colours in the sprites and backgrounds, but more added for the sky using the copper.

Last edited by khph_re; 25 January 2012 at 21:15.
khph_re is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 21:24   #11
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44
Posts: 6,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-J View Post
Apples and oranges really. The fact that they were both 16-bit is a red herring. The Megadrive was designed from the ground up to play games and shift lots of data round the screen quickly. The Amiga was designed for spreadsheets. Not saying the Amiga didn't have amazing games, but the MD hardware was designed with solely gaming in mind.

C64 vs Master System is another example.
Incorrect, the Amiga was originally designed as a console, it was only Commodores intervention that it be turned into a fully fledged computer to replace the C64 that changed things.

The Amiga could have been capable of doing something akin to Sonic, but unfortunately, it wouldn't have gone to the right people to be converted.

As Codetapper said, originally Sega were going to licence Sonic when it first came out, it was only after some thought that they opted to withdraw the licence because they wanted to compete with Nintendo who had their own series, i.e. Mario which was platform specific.

If US Gold had converted Sonic, it frankly would have done more harm than good to the Amiga, in fact if it had been converted by US Gold or any of its usual stables of development teams (Aka showers of shit!), it quite possibly could have done the Amiga massive harm.

Streetfighter 2 was bad enough, but that was late enough in the Amigas lifespan that it didn't really matter, but if Sonic had been released on Amiga in 1990 near the time of the Megadrive version, it would have been very bad for Amiga.

Neo were not established at that point, Team 17 were not established enough at that point, Factor 5 might have been capable of taking on the job and turning out a decent version, maybe at a stretch some of the guys in Thalion, but really, if Sonic was to have been done, it would have been better released later in its life as there was then plenty of programmers out there that were very capable of squeezing the best out of the Amiga.
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 25 January 2012, 22:57   #12
CU_AMiGA
Banned
CU_AMiGA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Exeter
Age: 32
Posts: 959
as far as i know both c64 and amiga were both designed with gaming in mind! wots the point of having cutting edge hardware if its for spreadsheets?! lol
CU_AMiGA is offline  
Old 26 January 2012, 00:24   #13
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 17,933
Sonic wasn't possible in the Amiga because Sega wouldn't license it. Simple as that.
Any game is possible in any platform, given the right compromises are made.
Akira is offline  
Old 26 January 2012, 00:32   #14
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 43
Posts: 891
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchhikr View Post
Sonic 1 on the Master System (runs at full frame rate on the console):

[ Show youtube player ]

Sonic 2 (also runs at full framerate):

[ Show youtube player ]
Those versions of Sonic didn't use parallax like the MegaDrive/Genesis version did. An Amiga could easily have done what the Master System did. It probably would have even sounded better and definitely would have been able to keep up.

One thing about the MegaDrive/Genesis though that the Amiga was better at was the fact that Amiga had 12-bit Digital to Analog conversion for a maximum of 4096 colors. The Megadrive/Genesis only had a 9-bit DAC for only 512 colors max.

What really killed the Amiga was that the AGA chipset was too little too late. The blitter was still 16-bit on the 32-bit system and the blitter's clock-speed was still 3.5 MHz when the display and bus-control portions of the chip were 28 MHz clock-speed. It's as if the AGA chipset never got finished before it reached the market and was rushed at the last minute as an after-thought. AGA could have wiped the floor with the Genesis/Megadrive if it came out sooner even in its existing state.
Samurai_Crow is online now  
Old 26 January 2012, 01:02   #15
Cammy
Registered User
Cammy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 32
Posts: 1,134
I hope someone can prove that the Amiga can pull off a decent version of Sonic this year.

Oh, and those Master System Sonic games run smoother on my Amiga than they do in theYouTube videos. AmiMasterGear rocks!
Cammy is offline  
Old 26 January 2012, 01:21   #16
Retrofan
Ruler of the Universe

Retrofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lanzarote/Spain
Posts: 5,595
Send a message via Skype™ to Retrofan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
I hope someone can prove that the Amiga can pull off a decent version of Sonic this year...
I thought that you and Rebel had something to be with the attempts for the incredible Amiga version of it... http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...ighlight=sonic
Retrofan is offline  
Old 26 January 2012, 01:24   #17
KevG
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: U.K.
Posts: 93
Quote:
I hope someone can prove that the Amiga can pull off a decent version of Sonic this year.
Patience Cammy....

I'm back on the job ;-)


KevG is offline  
Old 26 January 2012, 01:27   #18
Retrofan
Ruler of the Universe

Retrofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lanzarote/Spain
Posts: 5,595
Send a message via Skype™ to Retrofan
That looks too good to be true...
Retrofan is offline  
Old 26 January 2012, 01:36   #19
gibs
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: france
Posts: 932
Of course an Amiga can do it !!!
If we had zool2, why can't it be possible?
It's just that it was for the sea platform as gear of wars is for the xbox360 and not the ps3.
You know what I mean.
gibs is offline  
Old 26 January 2012, 01:37   #20
P-J
EAB veteran... Honest!
P-J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Warwickshire, England
Age: 37
Posts: 1,144
Send a message via MSN to P-J
I don't know what this debate is about any more. You've got one guy talking about a 1:1 conversion, and others talking about converting lesser version. It's either one or the other. Obviously the game is feasible if you strip it back, but I don't think that's what the OP is alluding to.
P-J is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
another amiga game that wasn't pubblished :D Raislin77it project.aGTW 49 21 March 2013 22:35
Sonic for the Amiga yadster project.aGTW 81 29 December 2012 02:47
Sonic The Hedgehog - Amiga raindancerob Retrogaming General Discussion 69 25 August 2009 23:10
Amiga Sonic screenshots/mockups, any more info? (NOT Sonic Attack/DCS) LocalH project.aGTW 2 09 October 2008 04:58
Sonic the Hedgehog for Amiga? s2325 request.Old Rare Games 75 20 June 2008 20:50

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.26751 seconds with 15 queries