Upgrading Apollo 1240 to 1260 a definitive How To Guide

[Zetr0]

@Dimlow

It looks great to me,

anyway, should it help, heres some pics of the Apollo 3.3 Regulator

Overview(click image to enlarge) [caution large linked image]


Underside(click image to enlarge) [caution large linked image]


View 1(click image to enlarge) [caution large linked image]


View 2(click image to enlarge) [caution large linked image]


If you want I can let you borrow my spare Apollo regulator (as long as you promise to send it back ) once you have finished your cpu testing.

[Dimlow]

Another great offer ! but also i will decline. What would be good is if you could measure the voltages on the pins for me ! And if you have a scope, tell me how much noise is there on the 3.3 v

Oh, and you really need a new camera! But cheer for this pics! I can see that there has been some recent hackery on that bench.

[Zetr0]

@Dimlow,

alas i dont have a scope ... its ONE OF THOSE THINGS i need to get... at some point LMAO!

truth is there quite cheap I really have no excuse.... any recommendations?

hmmm i dont have my apollo060 up at the moment to test it ( my friend Kin Hell has all my 060's for testing some of his kit on LOL ... )

[Dimlow]

Recommendations for a scope Mmm , thats a good one. First off, don't buy a new one, far to expensive. Second, don't buy from eBay also too expensive. look in the electronics mags for used items also online forums. but two channel at least 100Mhz preferably digital because it can do a lot of math and display voltages etc, makes life a lot easier. I have an old HP 54502A, got it a couple of years back an it has worked perfect and been fit for everything i need. Ah , yes don't buy a UT81B Uni-t . It looks good on ebay but its missing a lot of functions and is only really good for looking to see if a signal is there, not much else. I bought one, it has some uses but really only a multimeter. But as a multimeter its not bad at all. Id recommend my scope it can be found cheep, less that £100 and does most things. I have seen them go on ebay from £50 - £800, some online shops are selling them for £1000. Its old so i don't understand why!

One thing i say is it takes up a lot of desk space. But then i use it all the time so don't mind.

Have a look here if you want a shock i got my one for £110 with a analogue scope thrown in ( now thrown out!)

Here's a pic i found on the net.

[Zetr0]

Looks lovely!

Hmmm I think i shall have to have a looky around for one ...

[alexh]

I would recommend getting a logic analyser over a scope.

Most have some sort of lame scope built in.

I've used the scope 2-3 times in 20 years and used the logic analyser 100's of times. You can get a cheap USB based logic analyser probe module for £20-30 for use with a PC. Toni Wilen got one recently remember??

[Dimlow]

How many channels does that cheepy have ? goT a link, im in the market for one!

Just answered my own question Toni has a 34 CHANNEL LA1034 LOGICPORT LOGIC ANALYZER $389 US, its not £30! http://www.pctestinstruments.com/

[Toni Wilen]

They aren't cheap, if you want more than few slow channels ("useless" with Amiga imho)

I used this chart http://www.techtravels.org/tech/logicanalyzer.html to choose.

Note that Logicport does not have much memory (2k state changes/channel) but my tests are nearly always only few scanlines long.

Also dollar is very very cheap now

[Dimlow]

Yea, that's right Toni, I would of had one by now if they were cheep, Alex can't have woken up when he posted that!

Toni glad your here, how do you find that LA ? is it your first ? or have you used them before. what are you using it for? Does it serve you needs, what is it missing ?

[alexh]

Or you could make your own http://lekernel.net/scrapbook/ula.html

€99 for 16-channel 60MHz http://po.labs.googlepages.com/usbosciloskop

I swear I've seen them cheaper.

[Dimlow]

Yea, saw that, but still its slow

[alexh]

For the Amiga? What sample rate do you need? The fastest signal is what? 14MHz on a regular Amiga going upto 50MHz on an accelerated Amiga?

[Dimlow]

Well, I'm dealing with 80Mhz apollo 1260 soon, so no 14 mhz is too slow, also what the point in buying one that would be useless in the future. I think 500 Mhz or more. What Toni has is about the minimum that you would need these days. In fact i have been reading up on it, it looks like it will fit my needs just fine.

[Toni Wilen]

~28MHz is main clock on the Amiga but at least on my tests it is far too slow if you for example want to see when exactly sync signals change (they are a bit delayed compared to main clock) or other signals that aren't exactly synced to clock due to internal chip delays.

Toni glad your here, how do you find that LA ?

I was reading that floppy reader blog and noticed the comparison post. I always thought all useful 16+ channel logic analyzers are 1000+ USD.

is it your first ? or have you used them before.

First "real" logic analyser.

what are you using it for? Does it serve you needs, what is it missing ?

I bought it mainly for analyzing Amiga chipset timings. (there are some posts including images here) For example: DMA cycles, hsync/vsync positions, CIA clock cycles. Everything that isn't 100% documented.

So far I have "only" needed max 14 channels but when it is time to analyze both data bus and RGA bus simultaneously = 16 + 8 + few clock/misc signals..

Only limitation is smallish sample memory but so far I haven't needed long sample periods. (and it stores state changes so with slow clocks you can sample very long time)

You can configure very complex trigger conditions, this has been extremely useful feature, simple example: probe connected to vsync changes state, count 110 hsync signals, start sampling. (any signal combinations allowed)

(and of course it does not support 64-bit Windows)

[Dimlow]

Oh, bugger!, it was going fine until you said it does not support 64 bit windows, i use vista 64, but i have to have a separate pc with XP for my electronics stuff. oh will maybe a few years down the line things will be 64 bit

[snowman]

@Dimlow:
your power converter is nice work
is it working properly with 1260?

@All:
I would like to know if the power converter connector on the 1240/60 is similar to the on on 4040/60? Does somebody have an idea?

[alexh]

The Apollo 4040-4060 board takes an identical power regulator to an Apollo 1240-1260

At least I was sold mine on that understanding.

[Dimlow]

Smowman, Well its works ie it makes 3.3 volts, but i think i have a bad cpu so cant say for certain. If someone would like to test one i have a spare, the difference from the apollo one is that my one solders direct to the board, i have been thinking of modifying it so that you can switch voltages back so you can leave it in place with the 040 in, just a jumper!

Also according to the 68060 data sheet i need to add 3 diodes. So i may make another version soon. I have modded one of my board with these diodes to see if that was my problem. But it didn't work, so must really be the cpu.

11.2.1.2 INPUT SIGNALS DURING POWER-UP REQUIREMENT.
The second issue
involves the requirement that during power-up, input signals to the MC68060 not exceed Vddby more than 4 V. This is achieved by ensuring that the 5-V supply not exceed the 3.3-Vsupply by more than 4 V. In any of the previously discussed DC-to-DC conversion solutions,it is possible to add three diodes in series from the 5-V supply to the 3.3-V plane. During power-up, the diodes forward bias and thus provide a current path between the 5-V source and the 3.3-V plane. This solution provides no more than (0.7 * 3) = 2.1 V drop between the5-V input and the 3.3-V plane. When the voltage regulator stabilizes, the difference of (5 –3.3) = 1.7 V is insufficient to forward bias the three diodes, hence not dissipating any energy.Both Motorola and Linear Technologies have indicated that the three diode shunt does not adversely affect operation.

For reference this is the circuit the Apollo Reg board is bases on..


Been Working on a new version.
Preview

[Dimlow]

I just go a little gift from Jens Schoenfeld, and i now know why my 060 does not work! I would like to share this little gift and am currently waiting for Jens approval.
Can't say more till then but lets just say that after close examination of a lot of 1260 boards i found a difference, and i can't see why i didn't spot it earlier. Its a 27C010 !!!

[Dimlow]

Ok i have got the go ahead, here is the ROM image for the 1260, it needs to be burnt to a 27c010, there are a few on ebay, get at 150 ns or less chips if you want to try it. I have had some on order for two days, i should get them tomorrow, so i will test it. If it works i will have to go red faced to IC-China and send him back a 68060! Opps

Oh yea, the file is in the zone!