Killing Game Show - Page 2

dlfrsilver · 18 February 2014, 17:24

the non official IPF of Killing Game show has been processed with a KF streamfile dump from BarryB.

this game from memory is not trying to modify itself, so there should be no problem.

mr.vince · 18 February 2014, 23:24

So the difference is, we take a look with our tools, you make an assumption.

Just what could have happened: Cyclone cloned copy, highscore saved, bootblock virus damage removed, etc.

I am not saying it has been. But that's the reason the IPFs we make are different - we have a very strict policy.

BarryB · 19 February 2014, 00:06

It was dumped from my original disks, and to my knowledge was never written too.

dlfrsilver · 19 February 2014, 00:18

yes i know that. but KGS doesn't save highscores. The good point is that Kaffer knows well enough amiga coding to do the things right.

BarryB · 19 February 2014, 12:49

I know you know, but I didn't know if mr. vince knows what we know!

dlfrsilver · 19 February 2014, 16:59

ahaha you know that we know that's true as we know XD !

BarryB · 19 February 2014, 22:58

Has anyone completed this? There's only a cheat for getting more lives, no level skip!

dlfrsilver · 19 February 2014, 23:11

the only thing i know is that the rawdic imager gets both disks with no error from the IPF.
If the IPF was faulty, or damaged, the rawdic imager would report a track error.

Whdload installs are very convenient for that. If a disk image is faulty it fails, if the disk image is good, it succeeds.

dlfrsilver · 20 February 2014, 12:10

Talking about Psygnosis special format, it happens that the atari ST release of Obitus is using the bit stream format used on obitus amiga (there is a weak bit protection track added to that

) ; Only the boot track is atari ST, all the tracks on disk 1 and 2 have no sectors and are RAW datas. I made Pasti STX files out of my disks, and pasti stores the track data as raw.

whiteb · 25 February 2014, 07:48

Wow this thread is a blast from the past (9 years ?).

I guess Software Pres still have not gotten around to doing the Psygnosis format ??

Supamax · 18 March 2014, 04:37

I understand mr.vince point of view.

Even if BarryB is certain that his original disks were never modified nor write-enabled since he took them out of the sealed original box, and even if he knows how to make a correct & superverified dump, and even if Denis/dlfrsilver knows well what he's saying and has great experience in testing/copying/analysing floppies, the SPS team has to be absolutely CERTAIN, and to obtain this certainty they need multiple dumps and confrontation and analysis and all they think necessary to obtain a perfectly imaged disk.

I agree with them, although it's a very slow procedure...
Perhaps a solution would be adding (many) new active members in the Team (but I suppose they would need advanced flux knowledge etc. far beyond most of us).

IFW · 18 March 2014, 04:57

Actually, there is another solution... coming soon

mr.vince · 18 March 2014, 17:22

You mean THAT thing? You want to release it??

IFW · 18 March 2014, 19:06

I wonder what you are talking about

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=72080&page=6 I'd recommend reading the recent posts

BarryB · 18 March 2014, 22:50

No capsimg.dll yet

Supamax · 18 March 2014, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFW

Actually, there is another solution... coming soon

Hmmm, do you mean .scp support in WinUAE?
If so, I don't see it as a solution for preservation speedup. Not preservation up to your usual STRICT standards...

IFW · 18 March 2014, 23:10

No.
CT Raw support in WinUAE

Over 10,000 (!) games dumped into that format, and any KryoFlux dump can be converted into it as well in a few seconds.

Note: running raw images is NOT preservation.
It's purely for fun, and to let everyone use their own dumps instantly, before an "official" image gets released.
Raw dumps can be modified, bad etc. - it's expected, hence the need for thorough analysis.
However, this has been a very common request for some time now, and we've been listening - but as you might have noticed, we don't tend to promise anything until we know for sure that it's working

We do keep our strict rules for preservation as is, otherwise it's pointless.
But it's also understandable when someone wants to try any image instantly, to just have some fun - and the developments made by Toni and I made that finally possible.

So now people CAN play their images and submit them for preservation at the same time without waiting for an IPF image back to actually play with the image.

I think it's this possibility that matters, and I hope that everyone will find it worthwhile.

BarryB · 18 March 2014, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supamax

Hmmm, do you mean .scp support in WinUAE?
If so, I don't see it as a solution for preservation speedup. Not preservation up to your usual STRICT standards...

Read it again!

Did you not see this:

Quote:

Added support for raw dumps from Softpres Capture Tool and KryoFlux using new capslib v0.5

Supamax · 18 March 2014, 23:15

@ BarryB: I didn't pay the due attention and/or didn't fully understand the implications

@ IFW: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!

IFW · 18 March 2014, 23:28

Very quick & dirty QA

Q: Can I play Dungeon Master now? Is it really working?
A: Yes, all versions.

Q: Psygnosis games using MMFM disk encoding, ie Obitus, Killing Game Show, Nitro, Aermour-Geddon?
A: Yes, all of them.

Q: What's the catch?
A: It may or may not work - just like the real thing. This feature is purely for fun, and to allow everyone to use their images instantly.

Q: IPF?
A: IPFs are all "remastered" games, and hence can take a lot of time and effort to get them fully verified and in some cases supported via special extensions in the library and even in the analysis tools used to generate the IPFs.
These restrictions do not apply to raw dumps, so they serve a completely different purpose.

Q: How to verify Dungeon Master?

A: For anyone thinking about a copy of Dungeon Master working properly... the initial "protection checks" (if there are any depending on your version) let any half-assed copy attempt to pass, probably a decoy for crackers. The first real check occurs only when you try to save the game. Then it checks for the deterministic weak bits being present or not.
To check a copy working: Start new game, and resurrect anyone from the hall. Then press F1, the character stats appear. Select the disk save icon.
NOW the real protection check is invoked for the first time. If it passes a file menu appears. If it fails you get prompted to insert the DM disk.

18 March 2014, 04:37	#31
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Monza, Italy Posts: 2,822	I understand mr.vince point of view. Even if BarryB is certain that his original disks were never modified nor write-enabled since he took them out of the sealed original box, and even if he knows how to make a correct & superverified dump, and even if Denis/dlfrsilver knows well what he's saying and has great experience in testing/copying/analysing floppies, the SPS team has to be absolutely CERTAIN, and to obtain this certainty they need multiple dumps and confrontation and analysis and all they think necessary to obtain a perfectly imaged disk. I agree with them, although it's a very slow procedure... Perhaps a solution would be adding (many) new active members in the Team (but I suppose they would need advanced flux knowledge etc. far beyond most of us). Last edited by Supamax; 18 March 2014 at 04:45.

18 March 2014, 19:06	#34
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	I wonder what you are talking about http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=72080&page=6 I'd recommend reading the recent posts Last edited by TCD; 18 March 2014 at 22:53. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Killing Game Show	BippyM	project.Maptapper	1	09 July 2013 12:46
Killing Game Show	AlphA	request.Old Rare Games	12	24 November 2006 10:50
Found: Killing Game Show	bird	Looking for a game name ?	3	30 May 2006 16:30
The killing Game Show.	whiteb	HOL data problems	2	29 November 2005 08:47
Killing Game Show	Dastardly	request.Old Rare Games	7	26 February 2003 23:56

18 February 2014, 17:24	#21
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	the non official IPF of Killing Game show has been processed with a KF streamfile dump from BarryB. this game from memory is not trying to modify itself, so there should be no problem.

18 February 2014, 23:24	#22
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	So the difference is, we take a look with our tools, you make an assumption. Just what could have happened: Cyclone cloned copy, highscore saved, bootblock virus damage removed, etc. I am not saying it has been. But that's the reason the IPFs we make are different - we have a very strict policy.

19 February 2014, 00:06	#23
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,676	It was dumped from my original disks, and to my knowledge was never written too.

19 February 2014, 00:18	#24
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	yes i know that. but KGS doesn't save highscores. The good point is that Kaffer knows well enough amiga coding to do the things right.

19 February 2014, 12:49	#25
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,676	I know you know, but I didn't know if mr. vince knows what we know!

19 February 2014, 16:59	#26
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	ahaha you know that we know that's true as we know XD !

19 February 2014, 22:58	#27
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,676	Has anyone completed this? There's only a cheat for getting more lives, no level skip!

19 February 2014, 23:11	#28
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	the only thing i know is that the rawdic imager gets both disks with no error from the IPF. If the IPF was faulty, or damaged, the rawdic imager would report a track error. Whdload installs are very convenient for that. If a disk image is faulty it fails, if the disk image is good, it succeeds.

20 February 2014, 12:10	#29
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	Talking about Psygnosis special format, it happens that the atari ST release of Obitus is using the bit stream format used on obitus amiga (there is a weak bit protection track added to that ) ; Only the boot track is atari ST, all the tracks on disk 1 and 2 have no sectors and are RAW datas. I made Pasti STX files out of my disks, and pasti stores the track data as raw.

25 February 2014, 07:48	#30
whiteb Fanatically Amiga. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Age: 54 Posts: 1,557	Wow this thread is a blast from the past (9 years ?). I guess Software Pres still have not gotten around to doing the Psygnosis format ??

18 March 2014, 04:57	#32
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Actually, there is another solution... coming soon

18 March 2014, 17:22	#33
mr.vince Cheesy crust Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hawk's Creek Age: 48 Posts: 1,383	You mean THAT thing? You want to release it??

18 March 2014, 22:50	#35
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,676	No capsimg.dll yet

18 March 2014, 23:10	#37
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	No. CT Raw support in WinUAE Over 10,000 (!) games dumped into that format, and any KryoFlux dump can be converted into it as well in a few seconds. Note: running raw images is NOT preservation. It's purely for fun, and to let everyone use their own dumps instantly, before an "official" image gets released. Raw dumps can be modified, bad etc. - it's expected, hence the need for thorough analysis. However, this has been a very common request for some time now, and we've been listening - but as you might have noticed, we don't tend to promise anything until we know for sure that it's working We do keep our strict rules for preservation as is, otherwise it's pointless. But it's also understandable when someone wants to try any image instantly, to just have some fun - and the developments made by Toni and I made that finally possible. So now people CAN play their images and submit them for preservation at the same time without waiting for an IPF image back to actually play with the image. I think it's this possibility that matters, and I hope that everyone will find it worthwhile.

18 March 2014, 23:15	#39
Supamax Da Digger :) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Monza, Italy Posts: 2,822	@ BarryB: I didn't pay the due attention and/or didn't fully understand the implications @ IFW: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!

18 March 2014, 23:28	#40
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Very quick & dirty QA Q: Can I play Dungeon Master now? Is it really working? A: Yes, all versions. Q: Psygnosis games using MMFM disk encoding, ie Obitus, Killing Game Show, Nitro, Aermour-Geddon? A: Yes, all of them. Q: What's the catch? A: It may or may not work - just like the real thing. This feature is purely for fun, and to allow everyone to use their images instantly. Q: IPF? A: IPFs are all "remastered" games, and hence can take a lot of time and effort to get them fully verified and in some cases supported via special extensions in the library and even in the analysis tools used to generate the IPFs. These restrictions do not apply to raw dumps, so they serve a completely different purpose. Q: How to verify Dungeon Master? A: For anyone thinking about a copy of Dungeon Master working properly... the initial "protection checks" (if there are any depending on your version) let any half-assed copy attempt to pass, probably a decoy for crackers. The first real check occurs only when you try to save the game. Then it checks for the deterministic weak bits being present or not. To check a copy working: Start new game, and resurrect anyone from the hall. Then press F1, the character stats appear. Select the disk save icon. NOW the real protection check is invoked for the first time. If it passes a file menu appears. If it fails you get prompted to insert the DM disk.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)