PC DOS setup - plain english please

[buckrogers]

Should be true of the XG50 too. I might get both, one for the 486, the XG50 for the pentium.

[keropi]

OK, but remember, the XG50 will not be used to its full potential by any game... it will work only as a GeneralMidi synthesizer... the only game I remember having XG support, was FinalFantasy VII for win...

[buckrogers]

Got it. Problem is GM cards are rare. I had a choice of a Roland GM only card (no GS), or the XG50, which does GM, and to some extent GS, and XG is rare cases as you mention. I will keep an eye out for the best Roland card or if I can find one locally, an external midi box which costs too much to ship from overseas.

[Unknown_K]

Not sure how I missed this thread.

First off it is about impossible to have one system to play every DOS game as it was meant to be.

My systems for DOS games Include:

Tandy 1000HX for the very early games that used Tandy extended CGA and tandy sound. (CGA games cannot be reproduced well on a VGA video card)

next comes my 386/40 with 32MB. This unit has a Tseng et3000ax video card, gravis ultrasound max (1mb ram upgrade), and a Soundblaster pro 2.0 (all ISA cards).

for the last generation of games I have a p200MMX with 64mb ram, Nvidia Riva128 (PCI 4mb) Video (does VESA 3.0 in ROM), Soundblaster 16 PnP with a Yamaha DBX50 addon and a Gravis Ultrasound PnP with 8mb ram.

The gravis ultrasounds are supported directly in many games and also emulate the roland boards fairly well (hard to find and cost alot). The Soundblaster pro 2 is an 8 bit stereo card and supports just about any game made. The yamaha DBX50 is supported by many games directly (think tie fighter by Lucasarts was one of them) and does great midi (same with the PnP Ultrasound).

Visit these links for more information:

http://www.oldskool.org/shrines/pcjr_tandy

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/oldonnew/friendlyboxes

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/oldonnew/sound

[buckrogers]

Hey Unknown K, author of "The right Hardstuff" if I am not mistaken.

I took that thread to mind and have committed to building two systems. Anything below VGA will have to run on old dosbox on my XP'd PC.

Got the mobo and sound sorted, now just have to come to grips with video cards. Thanks for the links.

I assume you chose a 200mmx for a particular reason?

[keropi]

for VGA just get a Cirrus Logic or S3 PCI, there is not a prob in display... But you may need to download Scitech Display Doctor for DOS, which is a TSR that adds proper and complete vesa modes/functionality to vga chipsets. But you will only need it if you want to play in higher resolutions in games that support them, like DukeNukem 3D ...

[wlcina]

cirrus logic is very slow! the best is S3 Virge, (2mb vram enough) I recommends to instal win 95, install all drivers, instal Scitech Display Doctor for Win95, instal sound drivers. - Your games will load faster due to 32bit drive access.

[Unknown_K]

I didn't have a 233MMX handy! The MMX had more cache then the other Pentium 1's so it was a bit faster, and I didn't want to have timing issues with being too fast on a P2 or faster system.

I do suggest a tandy 1000 with CM-11 CGA monitor if you have the space for the CGA type games (Wasteland being one of them). Decent sound and video. I like the 1000HX because it reminds me of an Amiga 500 (computer built into a keyboard), uses 3.5" DD disks with DOS 2.x (only PC's to be able to use 3.5" disks before DOS 3) plus I have the external 5.25" Drive for it also (the system is almost PnP on the drives since I can pick the boot drive in BIOS).

The key for video cards is being fast in DOS , having VESA modes built into ROM ( I can play quake at very high res without a 3d card if needed), and having support for the refresh utility I use. I looked around and read up for a long time and came to the conclusion that either a TSENG et6000 (4mb only) or Riva128 based card (PCI Only) were the best bet for my Pentium 1 rig. DOS games generaly play at 60HZ so eyestrain can become a problem unless you get a refresh utility that supports your video card (can't think of the name but I can look into it later).



BTW I also have a Orchid Righteous 3d 3DFX card in my pentium DOS rig because of the early 3D games it supported in DOS (Tomb Raider and Mechwarrior 3DFX edition to name a few).

[wlcina]

you can disable l1 and l2 cache in bios. At least I had that options in my asus.

[Unknown_K]

Once I setup a system I don't want to fuck with it at all to play a game. Do you have any idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to setup IRQ's in DOS for 3 different sound cards?

Oh and S3 chips suck ass for DOS, why use a TSR for VESA modes (doing it in software) when you can get a fast card with it in ROM (hardware based)?
If you can't find one of the 2 cards I mentioned find an TSENG ET4000 based card (very common) or get a Voodoo3/TNT card (also common).

[keropi]

the TSR VESA driver and the ROM VESA driver, do not have any speed probs... the TSR is not slower than the ROM based one... what is important is the chipset...
I had a PCI CL5456 for quite a long time along with a voodoo2 on my p200mmx and never had any worries...

[buckrogers]

There's seem to be some major disagreement here. Can anyone else shed some light on this matter?

[keropi]

actually, even if you have VESA 2.0 extensions on the vga bios, it would be a basic support without enabling some features like linear framebuffer... that is why it is advisable to use Scitech Display Doctor in every situation. Unless you find a voodoo3 card which has VESA 3.0 support, or something of the same age...

[buckrogers]

Hey Keropi, you are really are a DOS-kid man!

But do you mind explaining any of that in real world laymen terms.

The real question is, will I perceive any difference in video output between the different cards mentioned, irrespective of all this VESA, TSR and Jedi-related talk?

[keropi]

well, there is no need to worry about output... VESA is just a standard to display high-res screens, and many hybrid ones, like 320X400... It is just a "little driver" that allows games and apps to communicate with a standard way with the VGA...
as for linear framebuffer, if supported by the vga chipset, it uses some hidden features to speed the graphics output... it did made some difference, I remember running Genecyst, a MegaDrive emulator, and when I was using a linear framebuffer mode, I was getting 10-12 more fps.... it's nice
but again, 98% of dos games do not use these features...

[Mr Creosote]

Originally Posted by buckrogers

"Then, for about two or three years, Roland synthesizers got popular with the developers. Keep in mind that these are only good for music, though, not for sound effects. After that, General Midi was supported most..."

Evil mastermind, during the "Roland years", what was the specific format that was in by games? GS? Since the Roland daughtercards are General Midi, surely it was GM that was supported, and perhaps later Roland's own GS spec?

Roland MT32 was 'the' one if I remember correctly. And no, those Roland cards aren't General Midi. They're Midi boards, but that GM standard (i.e. which 'instruments' are defined in what way) didn't exist back then. When it was, Roland made GM compatible cards, too, but as I said, that was later.

[Puzzle]

When it comes to graphics-cards, do not buy a Cirrus Logic. I had one, and it tended to disturb the sound (on the Soundblaster) when there was lots of activity on the screen. I later bought an S3-card, and that solved the problem.

[leroq]

I have a compatible DOS setup right here.. Intel BX board (Asus P2/3B series), AWE64 sound, Matrox G400 gfx (has VESA 3). And the fastest CPU for mainstream ISA boards, Tualatin Celeron 1,4g (running 1,6g ~=Athlon 2K). Very compatible when booted into DOS, rock-stable workstation.
As for the OS, PC-DOS 2K is fine but does not support FAT32, 512mb etc... Better to use DOS 7.1 which was distributed with W95b/98/98se. The multiconfig via config.sys also works to separate the DOS from the windows, I'm sure there are guides on the web.
Well, that's about the best DOS system you can put together. Biggest obstacle would be finding the right mobo/cpu/adapter combo. BX boards had varying capabilities to support the last Tualatin CPUs and often require an adaptor. Othwerwise the top end is the 600 P3-Katmai.

[buckrogers]

What's the oldest DOS games that you have tried on this setup?

[Unknown_K]

That system wont play any 80's games (too fast) and quite a few 90's games.