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[BippyM]

(I know this is in wrong section but off-topic i not read by everyone)

I'll delete it in a week or so

--

Hey guys.. Ive not been too active recently for various reasons (starting a business with my brother etc).

Anyway a friend of my family runs a company that develops application database software for businesses using Visual Dataflex. Now the guy that owns the company (My dad's childhood mate) has basically said If I can learn to use the software, and get my head around the basics (oop programming, database programming etc) he'll give me a job.. now..

Does anyone have experience of Visual Dataflex or can anyone point me towards some useful stuff to help me get my head around this..

[Zetr0]

OOP (object Orientated Progamming)

is very simple, if you can get your head arround ASM then this is a piece of piss to be quite frank.

Dataflex uses the 4GL language syntax

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-...mming_language

its VERY simple as you might expect. in all honesty if you can get your head arround ASP/ADO or Jscript 4GL will seem like a limmitation to you.

this will get you writing 4GL really quickly

http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/P..._BASIC___.html


In all honesty Dataflex is just an IDE for 4GL, and 4GL is only good for prototyping. but some make a really good living off it.

heres a good place to start learning (4GL)

http://www.sp4gl.com/

once you have the jist of it... you will know what dataflex is all about

http://www.visualdataflex.com/features.asp?pageid=679

.....


now for the assignment "whots this dataflex about!?".... 500 words... by monday next week LOL

hope it helps m8y!! (best of luck )

[BippyM]

Thanks buddy i'll have a looksie

The guy is really pushing for me to learn this, he keeps bugging my dad, and he only asked me what friday night...

I've not programmed a single thing on the pc.. so everything I can get for this will be awesome

[alexh]

Zetro did you look that up.... or are you an Oracle (Pun intended)

[Zetr0]

@Alexh

LMAO

hmmm wouldn`t mind working for oracle though in their R&D dept...

most of what i have put i googled, but the 4GL programming language i tried to teach to my bro a few years back as he was interested in database programming in an application not to disimilar to dataflex.

unfortunately attempting to install a programming language into my brother is well.... lets say i would have an easyier time getting winXP to work on my miggy!!!

[spiff]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

OOP (object Orientated Progamming)

is very simple, if you can get your head arround ASM then this is a piece of piss to be quite frank.

...

Isn't the problem that ppl just use procedural approach with OOP languages then? Not that OO will solve all the problems or that it's inherently easy/hard...

[Zetr0]

@spiff

I think i forgot the procedural approach a long while ago to be honest... I even see functions as objects in C...... (not c++ thats a lil different)

[BippyM]

well after looking thru some tutorials etc from what i can see the hardest thing will be learning the new syntax and commands etc

String sName sThis sThat

defines string variables lol

and

Get Value of oNameForm to sName

copies the contents of a windows string gadget into the string variable lol.. so hopefully i'll get a hang of it. Seems no more complex than basic

[Zetr0]

thats what 4GL was designed for... kinda.... that and for REAL programmers to mock those that use it ;D

[BippyM]

well if someone wants to pasy me 25k+ to program in it, who am i to say no!

[Ray Norrish]

Visual Dataflex is shite. I remember we evaluated this back in 1995? when it first came out (at the same time as Delphi 1) and it was crap then. Maybe it is better now, but it's still very niche in the professional sector. VDF was big once, back in the early 90s and on UNIX especially, but jesus.. not now..

I`d also have to question the sanity of someone who wants to employ a developer who doesn`t know the tools / language he's developing in (sorry - no offence there, but it's not practical)

[alexh]

An untrained developer will always be cheaper than a trained one.

If the guy is super smart and will be able to pick it up the basics in two weeks under supervision (which you should be able to figure based on track record, knowing the developer etc.) and you have someone to mentor him then do it!

It is a risk but for big rewards (lower salaries, better profits). Why do you think so many companies employ Graduates?

[spiff]

Aaah, the classical "IT" issue. Everyone wants it, no one wants to pay for it.

[Zetr0]

Its quite sad really.

Its only my personall opinion that the UK really doesn`t appreciate its workers work-skills, I will be honest in saying that I dont believe there is ANY ONE sector (commercial or otherwise) that renumerates (financialy or otherwise) for the work done.

This is also quite evident that graduates are seriously looked down upon. infact unless you have a masters in a specific field you are offered quite poor packages in the UK, and even if you have a masters (and haven`t specialised yourself out of the market) most companys would prefer to have you on an outsourcing / consultants contract.

I can honestly understand the reason to move 'else where' and it almost seems anywhere is better.

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by Ray Norrish

I`d also have to question the sanity of someone who wants to employ a developer who doesn`t know the tools / language he's developing in (sorry - no offence there, but it's not practical)

The chap has been a close friend of my dads since they were kids, and he owns the business which is extremely successful..

They have little to lose, esp as I have to learn most of it myself. I'm not stupid, and with guidance can learn in a few weeks..!!

[Zetr0]

Oh for the wont of being able to learn through the matrix.... mmmmm


I KNOW KUNG FU!

that would indeed be awsome!

[superBuster]

you can learn it, but it will take years to get very good. You can't simulate experience with brute force... learing how to code just takes time and experience. Take the opertunity but make sue you are clear on what is expected from you as otherwsie you could find yourself in a bad situation, esp with old friends.....that think theyare doing you a favor

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

Its quite sad really.

Its only my personall opinion that the UK really doesn`t appreciate its workers work-skills, I will be honest in saying that I dont believe there is ANY ONE sector (commercial or otherwise) that renumerates (financialy or otherwise) for the work done.

This is also quite evident that graduates are seriously looked down upon. infact unless you have a masters in a specific field you are offered quite poor packages in the UK, and even if you have a masters (and haven`t specialised yourself out of the market) most companys would prefer to have you on an outsourcing / consultants contract.

I can honestly understand the reason to move 'else where' and it almost seems anywhere is better.

Yes, it's bad that businesses don't want to pay for educated people. That said, having a diploma doesn't mean you're good, fast or innovative at programming. It does imply that you have patience, are self-reliant, and can express yourself formally in writing.

When there are vacancies/recruitments, the task you're hired for is often a VERY narrow one. So the thing that gets you the job is usually that you've done something similar before. Diplomas matter less to them. They wanna hire you, finish the product on time, and then things move on from there.

Exceptions are experimental/academic/new technology sectors.

In Sweden it's getting silly, you pretty much have to have years of experience to become a janitor or cleaning lady/lad.

And about OOP: don't confuse the syntax with programming methods. OOP can be as hard or as easy as you want it to be. The single most important tip you can get about OOP is the same as for any other language: learn to use the debugger before you write your first line of code.

I've spent my last 4 years @ Uni and I keep catching the programmers blinking at a piece of code. What it does is there in plain English (almost), and they ask what's wrong with the code. I say, "How should I know? Have you checked the inputs?" (to the function). And they react like, "Oh, there is a debugger?"

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Photon

In Sweden it's getting silly, you pretty much have to have years of experience to become a janitor or cleaning lady/lad.

The other day I was looking in the window of an agency and saw a "trainee administrator" job needed at least a year's admin experience! I mean, that's totally crazy. More and more jobs seem to be heading that way over here as well.