Was anyone else disappointed with the A1200?

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

3. Having any FastRAM would raise the cost more because it would require a separate memory controller and a significantly larger more complex PCB.

You are aware, that the A1200 does already have such a 2nd memory controller for FastRAM on board? It is called Budgie.

[TEG]

FWIW there's a 2019 discussion about the subject of memory timing here, Toni involved: A1200 CPU memory access speed (with DMA)

[albino]

The biggest issue was their strategie choice. Why not releasing an cd device (THE CDTV for exemple) that enhanced the ocs/ecs hardware (an extra cpu, something to help using HAM mode, create aga for the ocs), then focus on something powefull for the next generation who could handle 3d like 3DO did. Don't you find it shamefull that atar's falcon and jaguar was more powerfull than 1200 and cd32?

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

this is boring lol

Originally Posted by Gorf

Is someone forcing you to read this thread?

Bren, I don't care what Gorf says, you better keep reading this thread or you'll never see that pug again!!!!!!

Bwahahahahaha... <movie villain evil laugh>

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by albino

Don't you find it shamefull that atar's falcon and jaguar was more powerfull than 1200 and cd32?

The Jag is only powerful on paper .. it is notoriously hard code for and it took coders many years (= long after its demise) to figure out the best ways to code for it and circumvent certain hardware bugs ...

The Falcon is tormented by the same memory bottleneck as the A1200, only for slightly different reasons: the memory interface is only 16bit wide

[albino]

[QUOTE=
The Falcon is tormented by the same memory bottleneck as the A1200, only for slightly different reasons: the memory interface is only 16bit wide [/QUOTE]
Even so, the 1200 seems to me like an mild update of the amiga 500, Like i said before it would hae been ok as an enhancement of OCS if designed as an add on (a mega cd with the mushroom add on), but let's be honnest this machine is not up the task! The amiga deserved a much better follow up.

By the way, could have aga been implemented as an add on to amiga 500 ?

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by albino

By the way, could have aga been implemented as an add on ?

Add on to what? AGA can be combined with 16 bit bus CPU - CBM already mentioned this in documentation so you could have 68000 with AGA but that's all - perhaps you can replace Agnus with Alice - not sure but of course Denise has way less pins than Lisa so don't think so, Paula didn't changed at all.

[albino]

Originally Posted by pandy71

Add on to what

LIke is sugested in my post, add on to the amiga 500 via the zorro bus for example. Saying that i'm not sure they develloped it yet at the time they launched the a570 cd drive though,

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by albino

LIke is sugested in my post, add on to the amiga 500 via the zorro bus for example. Saying that i'm not sure they develloped it yet at the time they launched the a570 cd drive though,

They technically could have made a board with an 68020 on it, AGA chipset as well, 2 MB of ChipRAM and some glue logic to still use the CIAs, ports and the floppy drive of the A500. More or less a CD32 motherboard attached to an A500.

But at that point it would make more sense to make a full replacement for the A500 motherboard. A kind of A500 Rejuvenator.

Which would actually have been a good idea, to get more people to switch to AGA, which in turn would convince more developers to make AGA software.

[albino]

Originally Posted by Gorf

But at that point it would make more sense to make a full replacement for the A500 motherboard. A kind of A500 Rejuvenator.

.

You got a point, i meant an ocs enhancement within reasonable limits.
More like a board with a 14mz 68000 plus some extra hardwares to boost the graphics and 3ds capacity, coupled with a cd rom drive. Off course scraping the CDTV and focus on something really competitive for the next gen like everyone did (EVEN SEGA with saturn).

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by albino

LIke is sugested in my post, add on to the amiga 500 via the zorro bus for example. Saying that i'm not sure they develloped it yet at the time they launched the a570 cd drive though,

Technically probably possible but this will be efficiently new computer - Amiga is chipset, CPU is side to chipset. Based on differences between Lisa and Denise i would say not likely... by adding second computer yes.

[TEG]

Originally Posted by albino

More like a board with a 14mz 68000 plus some extra hardwares to boost the graphics and 3ds capacity, coupled with a cd rom drive. Off course scraping the CDTV and focus on something really competitive for the next gen like everyone did (EVEN SEGA with saturn).

It would have totally flop. The problem is always the same, the installed base. Editors would have not develop games for this add-on because a poor penetration of the market. STe syndrome.

The idea of offering to replace the motherboard of the existing base when a new platform was outputted make more sens. An effort to try to uniformise the stock. But a real dynamic would have been need from Commodore. I mean announcements, TV spots, certified vendors, support, etc... and R&D for this new board in addition to the new platform.

The problem with this approach, from an industrial point of view, is that you multiply potentials problems and references to manage. Always a burden especially in the 80's with the IT state then.

With integrated platforms like the Amiga, you really have to offer a jump in performances for mass adoption of new releases. Like Sony did with the PlayStation.

[albino]

[QUOTE=TEG;1664877]It would have totally flop. The problem is always the same, the installed base. Editors would have not develop games for this add-on because a poor penetration of the market. STe syndrome[QUOTE

Maybe, maybe not, The incentive would hae been to push the CD format and compete with pc 386 generation but keeping in mind the preparation of next amiga system. Let say by 1990, 1991 commodore proposed us to enhanced our system by adding a CD drive with extra hardware for less than a price of a new computer aquisition, don't you think we would all have been happy to run games we all saw in magazines on our amiga? of course no cdtv launch, no amiga 600 just the 500 and a powerfull cd ad on(A570 with extra hardwares).

[CCCP alert]

Originally Posted by Gorf

The Jag is only powerful on paper .. it is notoriously hard code for and it took coders many years (= long after its demise) to figure out the best ways to code for it and circumvent certain hardware bugs ...

The Falcon is tormented by the same memory bottleneck as the A1200, only for slightly different reasons: the memory interface is only 16bit wide

The Falcon did that for ST compatibility reasons IIRC, dumb choice...who cared about running old STFM games in 1993? Nobody

[Karlos]

The 16 bit memory bus of he Falcon runs at 16MHz though, compared to 7Mhz 32-bit of the A1200. So in truth, the bus on the Falcon was slightly faster in theory.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Karlos

So in truth, the bus on the Falcon was slightly faster in theory.

Wasn't that the Atari Jaguar tagline?
The Atari Jaguar, it's slightly faster... in theory!!!!

(sorry)

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Karlos

The 16 bit memory bus of he Falcon runs at 16MHz though, compared to 7Mhz 32-bit of the A1200. So in truth, the bus on the Falcon was slightly faster in theory.

But this bus ist shared with VIDEL ...

Speed measurement on the Falcon gives following results:
5.345 MB/s (read) / 6.488 MB/s (write) as a maximum.
This is still slashes the performance on the CPU by 50%

So you need to add "TT-RAM" (32bit on a turbo board) to get rid of this penalty.
But since the Falcon has no expansion port you need to place such a board into the CPU socket.

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by CCCP alert

The Falcon did that for ST compatibility reasons IIRC, dumb choice...who cared about running old STFM games in 1993? Nobody

I'm pretty sure that almost everyone would have been pissed if their old games no longer worked ;-)

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by Dunny

I'm pretty sure that almost everyone would have been pissed if their old games no longer worked ;-)

You could play games on an ST ???

[albino]

Originally Posted by Gorf

You could play games on an ST ???